Phil Nickinson of Android Central and Rene Ritchie of iMore talk Apple vs. Samsung and the U.S. court verdict that saw Apple awarded over $1 billion in damages. This is a Mobile Nations special!



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Mobile Nations 18: Apple vs. Samsung special verdict edition


The biggest question that I think they didn't ask each other is how much really is TouchWiz to blame for the similar look and feel? What if all of those phones had stock Android on them? Going forward maybe Samsung should once again take a closer look at whether it's really worth it to skin Android? If they would go all stock, then all they would need to concern themselves with is the Hardware not infringing on Apple's patents and let Google deal with Apple in regards to Software...

Actually it would have been more impressive if Phil had provided the illusion that he was handing a beer off to Rene from his screen to Rene's

nice podcast but im shocked phil didn't seem to take this more seriously. this had zero to do with money or patents. the bottom line is apple wants to destroy android one by one. it was steve jobs goal and still is after his death. don't even think for two seconds when this one is done that apple won't go after the other oem's and even google. they sue what they fear because android knocked the precious iphone out of the top spot. in the end this will hurt us all, the consumers. nothing about an iphone is innovative. Why do you think apple isnt going after webos,blackberry or windows phone? Its simple they "currently" arent a threat. Apple plays dirty to get ahead and the sick thing is their allowed to do so.

Android owns about 60 percent of the market. apple around 20. I highly doubt another rehash of their little phone can help them overcome that margin lol. The Iphones 4s didn't help them gain any ground and the 5 won't either. no matter how many features they steal from Android. Have fun with Apple maps should be aaawesome lmao

Well said! I couldnt agree more...this type of coorprate bulling is not new. It is sad because the same cuatomers that supported these companies are rewarded for thwor loyalty with corprate drama and end the consuner will suffer and loose the most.

As I have stated before and will continue to say that this won't change Samsung to much. This lawsuit was based on 2009 and 2010 products apple sued on wow how great. None of this has anything to do with current Samsung products today. Samsung will move on with it's today's products and do very which what is the envy of apple. Meanwhile home at the range I am extremely excited for the upcoming Galaxy Note 2 which will be launched on August 29th that's all that matters to me. If you own the Galaxy Note, Galaxy S3, Galaxy Nexus or if you plan on getting the upcoming Galaxy Note 2 or Galaxy Nexus 2 then just know these are great product that pimp slaps apple drastically. Apple can only wish they can do better which they won't.

They can do better.... without iPad most likely tablets would be in stagnation as they been before iPad, most likely you not see Google Now without Siri first. Apple can come up with something which what Android don't have and will be influential to the market.... but Android fans will only acknowledge that feature if it's gonna be on Android, as it was with tablets (with mobile os) and voice assistance. Can't wait until Apple will bring NFC to iPhone, Android fans will be so pissed that Apple coping something and they won't realize this is best news for Android that can be from "iPhone 5", it would mean large boost for NFC technology adaptation.

LOL. You do realize that Android had voice actions more than a year before Siri came out, and that the Google Now concept has been around a while in the form of "My Google" (or something like that) on their normal webpage for several years now, right?

Your problem is that you're actually buying all of Apple's marketing hype, never realizing that most of it is complete tripe. I mean, they announced wireless N (the latest version of WiFi) as "revolutionary technology" today. Wireless N technology has been around for several years. I'd be willing to bet these guys are totally snickering and calling people who believe this stuff an idiot as soon as they get off stage.

I will grant you that Apple saw a market that had stagnated and found a way to revitalize it with the iPad. Kudos to them, but it still runs iOS and I personally don't like living in Apple's walled garden. I jumped the gate and I don't plan on *ever* going back :)

@ richardyarrell - amen... While they've been sitting on their patent portfolio, Samsung/Android has breezed passed them. Samsung got smacked down on older products... Not the S3, Galaxy Note 2, Tab, or any future products they have in the pipeline. ICS, like it or not just blows away IOS, IMO, and now, Jelly Bean??? Jelly Bean FUCKING ROCKS MY WORLD... I remember my original Droid Iris, my first smartphone, and being amazed by the notification pull down. That was back in 2009... iPhony just got that last year in the 4S and still doesn't have it right. Jelly Bean's notifications runs circles around them. I have two little boys and beautiful wife who's pics celebrate my wallpaper... guess what? I can choose to have no icons on any home screen so that when I turn the phone on, or hit home, I'm welcomed by them... I'm a proud owner of the Galaxy Nexus (Verizon) running a Jelly Bean rom... True multi-tasking/app switching... Total control of my phone and not the other way around. Google/Samsung can disappear this time next year and I will never ever buy an iPhone nor a Winblows phone.

Hey, I do the same thing! Nothing on my home screen (or on my far-left one), so that I can enjoy whatever photos I put there! I love my Galaxy Nexus (Verizon), too. :-) I don't have Jelly Bean yet, but ICS is wonderful. I love the way that I can just swish notifications away, if I don't feel like dealing with them at the moment. I love the App Drawer. I love the folders that will hold up to 16 apps each. I love the gentle curve of the screen, so that it isn't touching a surface when I lay it face-down. I love the ability to keep and change batteries, throughout the day, instead of being tied to an outlet. I love the large screen. I love the vibrant picture quality. I love the Shush! and Multipicture Live Wallpaper apps. There's very little that I don't ADORE about my Nexus. :-)

The only thing Apple deserved to win on this trial was the blatant copying on the icons and the forced same shaded dock area if the original Galaxy S. The S2 largely went away from the majority of those similarities. Beyond that Apple's patents should have been invalidated. There is prior art to just about everything else or those things are obvious use cases when dealing with a capacitive type touch screen. It does not matter if the jury does not find it obvious since they are not UI designers or software writers. Intelligent people who design these devices would easily throw these patents out because they are obvious now that the technology is available to do them.

Excellent analysis. I find it interesting that the judge denied Samsung the ability to present prior art. Patent law is now a joke. I really liked Samsung's statement, which specifically mentioned that you can patent a rectangle. Go watch 2001: A Space Odyssey and you can see tablets that look like the iPad.

This guy is interesting:

Velvin Hogan, the jury’s foreman, said in a phone interview yesterday that the panel relied on e-mails describing Google’s influence to arrive at their decision. The e-mails included an internal 2010 Samsung message describing how Google asked it to change the design of its products to look less like Apple’s.

Look him up. He was involved in a high-tech patent which is most likely used in the iOS Operating System. The jury is supposed to have "leaned" on him heavily (source Bloomberg, How is a memo from Google an indication of guilt? That's Google's opinion.

Apple has a win here, but I think this hurts their whole theme about how Google "is evil". They can spin it anyway they want, but if they go for bans instead of licensing deals, it's clear what their goal is. I spoke with several iPhone users over the weekend, and they thought it's ridiculous if Apple seeks to ban Samsung products instead of asking for licensing money per phone.

In the end, Apple users should be glad that Android exists. There is no way to Apple would have improved (to the degree they have), iOS on the iPhone without competition. Can anyone here honestly say iOS would have the notification bar (blatant copy there), without Android innovation?

You know what really confuses me? Every Android Phone maker had to pull the full functionality of Google search from the Android phones, but Blackberry had that in WebOS (and still does) since they started. How does that make any sense?

It's a sad day for the consumer. It's even more sad that Apple will, just now, with the iPhone 5, release a phone that competes with the SGS 2.

I hope, in retaliation, that Samsung withholds their latest tech from Apple devices, such as the new 250 ppi flexible screens.

I agree, it's the users who get screwed on the patent wars. One has to look back and actually thank Apple for introducing us to the smartphones that we take for granted today. Unfortanantely, Apple looks to be guarded (and come off as a douche) because they want to appear as the only one being innovative. But by coming out with a phone that revolutionized the industry, they forced their competitors to step up their game as well. (Sigh, I miss Palm-they actually almost had a chance) Anyway, there will always be someone taking someone else's product and improving on it..

Very nicely done, Phil and Renee. I have to admit that I don't normally listen to the podcasts, jsut cuz I don't take the time to. But after this, most of my people know where I stand on Android versus Apple, so I felt like I needed to be a little more in the know. This gave me some good info.

I had posted this on another site that I got from a link explaining patent creation. I do apologize for not remembering the link but I will post it as soon as I find it.

Here it is:

It doesn't state at NO TIME that apple didn't "steal" anything. It clearly states in the last paragraph that the drop down bar CLEARLY infringes on Google's property. It's just that the patent hasn't been approved yet. Go re-read your own article you posted.

The "selection in a status area" language merely means that the user provides some sort of input in the status area (where the notification immediately populates) to learn more about the notification - either a pull-down or a press (iOS does both, Android usually only does the pull-down method, except on tablets). iOS clearly infringes on this element.

The third clause about a "central zone" of the GUI displaying "text from the messages" refers to the whole notification center pull-down that aggregates notifications and, if applicable, makes some mention of their content. It's pretty obvious Apple's implementation infringes on that element of the claim, as well. Just compare to Android:

So don't freaking tell me that apple is 100% correct in suing samsung for infringment when it's clear apple infringes as well. I have NO respect for apple and no respect for anyone who defends them in suing for infringment. Period.

They don't infringe anything as the patent is not approved there for is not yet valid, as long as it is they can legally implement it... ofcorse with risk of troubles later on :p

But even if it's gonna be approved it's kind of thing that can be easily worked around at any time, Apple can come up with original UI solutions if they really want to, just look on OS X which heavily inspired Windows Vista :p

No to mention Windows 7 implements most symbolic OS X UI feature of them all... the dock.

I don't know why they pick to fully copy notification bar, maybe because guy who they hired for that was not able to go beyond what he did for JB community as Apple expected to be. But i know they able come up with somethign diffrent.

When the patent is granted, which it should cause apple seems to get patents on random thoughts, apple will have to change ALL the devices that use it (what? only 2?) and then come up with something different for notifications. If they change it it will be fine by me. But Apple said they don't want nobody to steal thier technology but it's OK if apple does it? I think not.

The references you mentioned about OS X and Windows is just that. Apple and MS. Nothing to do with Android. If apple wants to go after MS, then so be it.

Everybody copies everybody to a certain degree. I agree on this. But I don't agree with apple suing for infringment when they do it themselves...patented notification bar or not. It's still the principle. And when the hammer drops on apple, I hope it hits like an anvil.

But to be fair, If Samsung was throwing frivolous lawsuits at say....HTC, LG, Lenovo, etc., for patents they never should have gotten, I would be attacking Sammy just as hard. But this isn't the case.

Wow, Gator. Seems like last time I saw you around we were at odds, but I have to agree with everything you've said here 110%.


See, even thier beloved GOD admits it! But the apple fritters will still defend apple like no other saying he wason drugs at the time and didn't really mean what he said. Sad if you as me.

Great Podcast. Thanks for the clarity (from both sides). Much appreciated, now I can sleep easier knowing that I'm not the only one wanting a Samsung iPhone :P

To be honest, I just listened...really listened to the podcast. I actually have new found respect for Rene Ritchie and less for Phil Nickinson. Phil actually sounded like he didn't really care about the who's or why's this all came about. He didn't want to talk about really anything that was important except for that it needs to end and move on. I get that. But somewhere as an editor of a certain site for a certain product should at least act like he cares. He didn't defend samsung to any extent nor did he bash apple. But Rene didn't defend either of them either. I guess it's Phil'sbody language is what got me most.

Neither fanboy'd at all. Which is a good thing. But phil didn't seem to care at all about the ramifications this could have on all of us. I didn't expect Phil to posturize for or against but he didn't posturize at all. He didn't stand up for Samsung/android at all which ia alarming since Apple has patents that shouldn't be per se' and that android has patents pending that apple is using.

maybe phil has a secret love for apple? i dunno i like phil but i agree he could of been a bit more passionate about this subject.

I like Phil too but IMO Jerry should be the editor in chief at android central. He's much more passionate about android and mobile tech in general for that matter. He's also more knowledgeable regarding the nuts and bolts of mobile tech l. Phil often acts like he's simply bored by his job.

I think Phil's tired of having to talk about patent wars, and he feels helpless to do anything about it. Many of us are in the same boat. I'm sure he would much rather play with new phones and tell us how awesome they are and say "don't you wish you had one?" while testing out the newest Android games and apps all day.

I remember one of the first articles I ever read on here had a video of Phil and somebody else showing off Angry Birds and, in the video, you could see he was sitting at a desk with no shoes on. I remember thinking "he gets all (ok, maybe most of) the new devices for free, all the new games for free, then spends his work day sitting around playing games on these cutting edge [free] devices with no shoes on? I'm in the wrong career." ;)

How = Pre/pixie...nuff said.

Why = Pre/pixie...nuff said.

WebOS was great. They just so happened to put it in shit hardware. Kinda was like they didn't want top quality. But All this was meant to be a joke.

Being a website called ANDROID CENTRAL I wish the leader would show some more attitude towards a company (Apple) that is trying to ruin Android. Show some emotion, you have to be pissed off at a company that is basicly a pattern thief and is using their stolen patterns to screw Android. Come on Phil, when Renee is not doing his podcast with you he is ripping Android to all his I-sheep. I don't like what the company Apple has turned into, they have done a great job at convincing the US court system to buy into their bull shit. It is obvious the only reason they won this case was because the Japanese witnesses did not appear in court, language and cultural barriers also had allot to due with this and I think when Samsung appeals this bull shit decision we may see a complete flip flop. The Judge on this case is a joke, this case is a fucking joke and when the time has run out on these ridiculous patterns that Apple has ripped off then Apple is all fucking done. Open up a Apple phone and all you see is the name Samsung on 80% of their parts, what does that say? Apple is on a slow spiral down. I will be very happy when they are in the same shoes as Blackberry.

100% agree but tbh i think the podcasts lately have been pretty boring. jerry is really the only one who shows any passion anymore.

100% agree as well. You said basically what I was trying to say...with more emotion!! If I could give "thanks" for this I would.

Maybe they don't care as much piece of plastic and metal so seriously to yell at each other as hardcore fans of those devices.