Android Market

New Market installationThe new look to the Android Market will be rolling out over the next couple of weeks. But if you just can't wait, you can download and install it now. We've done so and have taken it for a test ride.

Graphically, things are much improved, trading the tabs for one long page. Comments, related items, screen shots and all the usual fodder is there on that one page.

The home screen and categories have carousels at the top -- you can flip through them to see promoted applications. It's quick and rather nice.

Installing an app is the same process, but much more aesthetically pleasing. When you press the install button, it then shows you the system and security components that the app can access. That's not new, but it's much more friendly, and we're hoping that casual users will actually pay attention to them now. You then press "OK" to actually install the app. Again, not new, but nicely refined.

Purchasing an app is exactly the same process as before. You make the deal, get a receipt e-mailed to you, and the app is installed. Refunding is seamless -- just open the app in the Market and press "refund." Careful of the 15-minute time limit, though.

We've got a brief video walkthrough after the break. Check it out. [Download the apk at XDA DevelopersThanks to everyone who sent this in!


YouTube link for mobile viewing

 
There are 115 comments

thisisbenji says:

It's pretty sweet to see the market changing for once.

pceasar says:

mehhhh, one long page? What the fizz? I prefer the tab viewing its so much easier to navigate tabs. The other stuff looks good, I always thought that carousel should have been there, but one long page equals clutter & fail. Google is slowly starting to annoy with these weird moves of theirs as an avid Android fan this is becoming disheartening

djgdroid says:

The 15 min. is not what I have learned to love about google and the android market. Bad direction for google to head. Sounds so apple. This is going to keep me from purchasing apps

ozzzy3z says:

I couldn't agree more. With the 24 hour window I willingly tried out different apps (and kept many). With a 15 minute window I will be much more discerning with my purchases. I will be less willing to try apps out translating to less purchases. Disappointing move by Google.

Ms Charli says:

I agree I won't be buying any apps with this short trial time!!!

mritter88 says:

I understand why they'd shorten the time limit, but I think maybe it's too short now. Making it like 30 mins or an hour would have been more user-friendly. Sometimes you can't get a great feel of an app in 15 mins, though you almost certainly don't need 24 hours, IMO.

kinster02 says:

I'll just use and purchase the apps with the free versions from now on.

DaneHR2 says:

Love it, smooth as silk. Just what it has needed. Evo

Wirelesskaos says:

Don't like the 15 min time limit at all!!

If I see something I might like, I don't always have time to try it out right away. The 24 Hr Buffer was a real plus for the Android system.

Simer03 says:

in the words of Borat......I LIKE!!

tnez21 says:

getting "Parse Error" during install on Fascinate, any suggestions?

E_man says:

Does it support 2.1?

Mattykinsx says:

The changes are more aesthetic than functional.

It runs slow for me on the Evo.

And the 15 minute refund is absolutely retarded.

All and all I don't like this update.

Niggle says:

Post removed. Please don't tell readers how to steal applications.

-Jesse Potter

Mattykinsx says:

lol that's stealing....but you're right. I think it encourages more of what you just said.

Niggle says:

Sorry, I didn't mean to offer a tutorial on paid app theft. Problem was that I had a really nice comment written out, but the spam filters decided to pick on me and I couldn't post. When I went to redo it, I didn't feel like typing the whole thing out again, so what you got was the quick and dirty of it.

I should say that I don't condone the pirating of apps at all, but with this new 15 minute rule in effect, I feel that users should be aware of a way to protect themselves from getting ripped off by sleazy developers. Basically, if you are rooted, and you know how to use Root Explorer(an awesome paid app), then you should be able to protect yourself from getting grifted in the Market.

yeah the spam filter here at AC sucks

stoneworrior says:

News flash Jesse, most of us around here do not need a tutorial. I did not learn how to copy DVD's because I wanted to steal. I did it because I purchased a used DVD player off ebay, then found out the hard way that my local SoCal DVD's would not play on them. Why? The movie industries DRM regional codes. Plain and simple the same thing is gonna happen here. The honest people may circumvent the system, test drive an app then pay later if they like it but others will just steal it after learning how easy it is, thus creating a new line of thieves. This is what happens when you push people into a corner, they find a work around. Any developer who supports this should think twice. You may not like the choices people make when you put their backs against the wall. Example, I can not purchase NFS Shift for my Evo but I have it, works great. As soon as I can purchase it I will but until then I refuse to wait, especially when I am willing to pay for it. This is the way you make honest people learn how to pirate. Oh and don't get me started on SWYPE, I would buy it in a heartbeat but alas I cant. Still works great on me EVO though ;-)

Lil21kev says:

Downloaded.. lets check it out

tim242 says:

I like Niggle's idea!

Droid hungry says:

Is there any one who can't get this? I have an Eris 2.1 and would love to see an update on my phone lol. It's been so long.

Mattykinsx says:

Android 1.6 and up will get this

Lil21kev says:

Its kool I suppose lol. Hopefully the 15 minutes time limit will encourage people to put out more demos etc. I cant blame google, its a business and they see bigger profits for them and the app makers besides if I download a crappy app for 5 bucks I'm not going to cry about it its just 5 bucks

Mattykinsx says:

It's a business and people are more likely to be more liberal with purchasing if they can test it before they actually commit to it.

$5 may not be a big deal to you but $5 is $5. Some of us don't just spend money on a whim.

Very silly move for Google.

mritter88 says:

I think the problem was that people would buy a game, play it for a little while, and then get the refund after they're bored. This effectively won't let you "borrow" a paid app to use during a flight or something like that. Google did it to make the developers happy, but I think 15 mins might be a bit too short.

Mattykinsx says:

Then make different refund times for different type of apps and have it tell you how much time you get when you download.

If it's a game maybe only 15 minutes or a half hour.

Other apps would get longer periods.

24 hours was a lot but 15 minutes is just stupid.

roberte1342 says:

If it takes less than 24hrs to get bored of a game then it is something you really didn't want and aught to be able to return. Sorry, but the developer has failed to deliver at this point.

deparson says:

All the 15 min limit will do is reduce the purchase of paid apps and/or increase the number of people who are willing to 'steal' them.

I have DLed a good number of apps that I was not sure of. Some of them I refunded and some of them I kept. With only 15 min I don't think I would bother with nearly as many which means less money in developers pockets. And less cool apps on my phone :(

Fail.

tim242 says:

@Jesse potter: But it's ok to tell people how to root, which enables them to steal the apps. Not to mention, pirate sevices from carriers. You guys actually advocate it! HYPOCRYTES!

Jesse Potter says:

There's no problem with rooting. Rooting your device and stealing from developers are two different things. Android Central will never be a place that supports stealing from developers. They spend a lot of time on their apps, and if it's worth it, give them their money. If it's not, don't use it.

tim242 says:

Carriers spend a lot of time and money on their networks. But, you advocate the piracy of their hotspot feature. The number one reason people root: WIRELESS TETHER. What about AdFree? That's cheating devs from ad money. Very few devs work hard on their apps for Android. You need to can that holier than thou attitude.

Menno says:

Tim you don't know anything about app development. You claimed that craps sell 100k downloads in just a few months.. Please point me to ANY example. The number one reason to root isn't to get wireless tether. The main reason for people to root is greater control over their device, or to remove bloatware. Again, some of the most popular paid apps in the market are root only. I've been rooted on my Droid1 since it was possible to do so. I've never installed wireless tether. In fact, most of the people I know who ARE rooted don't use it. Believe it or not, not everyone tries actively cheating the system.

tim242 says:

Carriers spend a lot on their networks. You advocate stealing their hotspot feature. The number one reason people root, wireless tether.

Kiserai says:

Google built wireless tether into stock 2.2. THOSE THIEVING JERKS!

But seriously, I didn't root for wireless tether. Not just because I didn't have to, but because flashing custom ROMs and making my phone look and operate the way I wanted it to was more of an important feature. I can count on one hand the number of times I've actually used wireless tether on my phone.

Also, I pay AT&T for 5GB of data per month on my "unlimited plan." I rarely use 1GB, and most of my friends rarely go over 500MB. Sorry if I don't feel sorry for the carriers on the rare occasion when I use my phone to share some of that data to another device without giving them any extra money. They can just take it out of the 4GB I pay for every month and don't use.

mike340t says:

I wish it was more secure like on my BB I can change or deny certain application permisssions.. I think as Android becomes 'bigger' that should be the next logical step, especially if they want to be taken seriously in the business world. Other than than I think this new Market 'looks better' BUT I found the other more functional as it was less scrolling.....

dacp283 says:

Yea I am a little confused how we advocate rooting to get free wifi tethering and the likes but censor someone pirating apps..... Granted just rooting is not pirating I bought this phone I do what I will with it. But stealing is stealing regardless of who it's from.

Menno says:

Most advocates of rooting say to do so to remove crapware, or install a lag fix, or one of the other dozen or so things that is stealing from no one. Yes, there are ways to cheat the system when you root, but you don't have to root to do a lot of these things either. Just like with everything else, Rooting is not wrong by itself, but how people use it can be.

tim242 says:

AC's Motto: It's ok to steal from carriers, but not devs . Got it!

kingvaj23 says:

i cant install the apk..:0 IM RUNNING CM6 STABLE ON G2..ANY help?

kingvaj23 says:

i cant install the apk..:0 IM RUNNING CM6 STABLE ON G2..ANY help?

kingvaj23 says:

i cant install the apk..:0 IM RUNNING CM6 STABLE ON G2..ANY help?

pattavino says:

they shut down the link to download, to much traffic.

tim242 says:

I have the new market, and it still says 24 hours.

It's great!! I love the new UI.

hansonator says:

I was browsing on app brain last night and when I hit the market button for an app it force closed. I reopened and saw the market had been updated.

Maybe more devs will offer free versions or trials from now on.
I did once buy a 5 dollar weather app but uninstalled it a few days later. No refund but still getting that new 50" Plasma. :-D

Can someone PM me the apk

Jjpp23 says:

Telling someone how to steal and stealing are two different things! ! I agree with can the holier than thou attitude...

Daniel0418 says:

Okay I installed the new version of the market, I don't understand why, but it seems like I don;'t have some of the features Phil mentioned in mine. There is no Widget section, There is no wallpaper section, and everything else seems to be the exact same except for the new looking UI. Am I missin gsomething?

kablaamo says:

Does anyone have mirror for the apk? They closed the link. Thanks.

gcims says:

No DL here either.

kinster02 says:

Although a nice upgrade I won't be in any rush to install this due to the 15 min trial limit...i'll wait for the official release.

tim242 says:

Still 24 hrs in the new release. Hasn't changed yet.

tim242 says:

@menno: Like it or not, rooting is cheating the system. Wireless tether >250,000 downloads (doesn't count downloads from code page). Root explorer 50,000-250,000 downloads. Titanium backup 10,000-50,000 downloads. Looks like wireless tether is the main reason people root. Any other apps you want to compare?

Menno says:

Actually compare to the number of people who install custom ROMS. Set CPU 50k-250k downloads, not counting free downloads from code page. Wireless tether is also a Free app, while Root explorer, Titanium backup, etc are all paid apps. or do you think that price has nothing to do with number of downloads? Rooting isn't "cheating the system." Rooting in and of itself does NOTHING that costs anyone money. a rooted phone, even running cynanogen, still taxes the carriers system the same as a stock phone. The removal of Crapps doesn't cost anyone any money either. since all it does is free up memory because I wouldn't be pressing on those anyway. Things like ad blockers, and wireless tether DO bypass the system, but I'm rooted and I use neither. In fact, if I try a rom that blocks ads, I manually re-enable them.

gtg465x says:

What's wrong with Root Explorer and Titanium Backup? Sure, they can be used to cheat the system. So can a gun. Just because I buy a gun doesn't mean I'm going to rob someone. Yeah, some people do buy guns with the intention of robbery, but they're in the minority and our freedom shouldn't be snapped away because of the choices of a few.

sanibel says:

Just removed my checkout information from Google, no more paid apps for me. The 15 minutes limit is unacceptable to me. Google lost a customer and apps developers too.

miniZ says:

Based on prior complaints (months ago) I have heard, I do believe this was inflicted because of App developers. I think they approve of this. Ask the iOS devs. But, I could be wrong.. this could just be Google mockingly screwing us all.

tim242 says:

Menno, aren't you a fine citizen. Good for you.(not that i believe you) You know damn well that most people root to cheat the system. Hell, even non-rooted users use easy tether and pda net. But, this site promotes those as well. Do a search for tether and see what you find...

tim242 says:

Here's a tethering how to, provided by AC. Even includes wireless tethering. http://m.androidcentral.com/android-internet-tether

miniZ says:

I do believe that tutorial was posted prior to carriers charging extra for tethering. Removal necessary? Maybe.. but honestly I'm just sick of seeing you post on this article.

tim242 says:

So, it's ok to steal from carriers, but stealing from devs is bad? Hypocrites!

Menno says:

Here's the issue I take with your position: You don't want AC to take a stand against all work arounds, you're trying to justify PIRACY by saying "well other people do it." NOTHING you're saying here justify's piracy, period, even if EVERYTHING you say about AC and tethering is true.

gtg465x says:

Tethering isn't really comparable to piracy. With piracy, you're stealing... no other way to look at it. With tethering you're just using a data connection that you already paid for. It's more comparable to the RIAA saying you can't copy a CD you bought to your hard drive. The RIAA wants you to buy a separate copy of each song for each of your computers and devices. The RIAA (and carriers) can do everything in their power to prevent you from copying your own CD to your hard drive (or using your own data connection with your PC), but they have no grounds for prosecution in court. Stealing and sharing music and apps is certainly grounds for prosecution though.

tim242 says:

Using any tethering app is pirating a service from the carriers. But, nobody seems to have a problem with that. If I have to pirate an app to get more than 15 minutes to try it out, so be it. The devs fought for it, they can pay the consequences. They know most people will not know, or won't have time. Stealing is stealing, whether it be from the carrier, or the dev. Stealing tethering leads to tiering. So, it has its consequenses as well. One is not better than the other. I guess you'd rob peter to pay paul lol

miniZ says:

You're right! And using Google Voice to send text messages is robbing carriers of a service! Let's picket everything Google!

It's a nice argument, but you're wrong on one very basic point: I pay for the data I use to tether. I don't sneak it out the back door.

qdigga says:

I tether to use my companies FREE WiFi on my laptop that has a bad wireless card. Um, last time I checked, I wasn't stealing anything from my carrier. Your argument is tired and bloating this thread....

dfine1966 says:

I have the new market on my EVO, and it still says in the help area for Returning apps. You have 24 hours from the time of purchase. So if they have the 15 minute limit, they haven't published it yet. Unless they publish it, legally they can't change it unless you are notified of the change. I haven't bought an app since this change, and don't know if it says that when buying, you have 15 minutes to change your mind or not. Someone who just purchased should let us know.

tim242 says:

I went to purchase an app, but did not complete it. It does still say 24 hrs.

bladerunn3r says:

I love how people of my generation expect everything for free. " If you don't provide your services and products for free - I'm just going to steal it" seems to be the prevailing attitude. Talk about spoiled. Just because you aren't willing to pay the price for something doesn't mean it's overpriced. And just because it's nearly impossible to get caught stealing it doesn't make you brave. It's not a boycott. It's not protesting. Get over it.

tim242 says:

You are misguided. It's not that we don't want to pay for apps...we just need more than 15 minutes to determine if it's worth the price.

Is anyone having an issue installing this? I DLed the apk shortly after it was posted and have not ben able to install... I've force stopped the market several times but I keep getting update unsuccessful. I'm running CM 6.1 on a CDMA Hero... Any ideas?

ls377 says:

You have to flash the zip file. The apk doesn't work on Cyanogenmod for some reason.

tim242 says:

I saw it posted that it isn't working on certain roms.

Maybe I'm the only one but I think the new Market UI is ugly and not in any way intuitive. One long screen for info and comments, etc., sucks big time. tabs was much better and more professorial looking.

tim242 says:

@Phil: You pay for data to be used on your phone. Do I agree with paying for data twice? Not really. But, it is what it is. The big difference is that you can use a lot more data tethering, than on the phone itself. If everybody shared our philosophy on tethering, the networks would crash. I'm just saying that it seems odd that you guys have no problem stealing services, but delete references to stealing apps.

Kiserai says:

You forget that GOOGLE built wireless tethering into 2.2. I didn't go out and download an app. All I had to do was update my Nexus One to Froyo and there it was in the settings. If you really have such a big chip on your shoulder about it, boycott all Google services and get another phone. Meanwhile, those of us who occasionally tether (without going over the data limit we already pay for) and root our phones without stealing apps can live happy lives.

Oh, and if you read the reviews of an app and try it out for 15 minutes yourself, you should be able to get a pretty good idea of how it works. Granted, I think for things like Tasker and other navigation apps there should still be 24 hours, but for most I think 15 minutes to an hour is just enough time to decide. Do I like it? No. Will I put up with it? Yes.

Let's just hope that before too long they'll start doing video previews of the app so you can really see what you're getting before you get to the Google checkout screen.

tim242 says:

I guarantee these people whining about app piracy, pirate the hell out of music. Those poor artists.

Daedalus says:

All I want to say is that the DEV's deserve a fair shake and their funds for a product, I want the same respect when I am out buying their product.

Hell Microsoft, Adobe and the likes give you 30 days to play with the software 6 hours from Google would be great, now I am just not going to give out my CC for any app I have not personally used.

Versed says:

Yes they do, but Adobe Suite is like $800 plus. Something like Bejeweled is 99c I know people get all up and arms about I don't have a lot of money, and I understand. But, the same people buy a crappy cup of coffee for over 2 bux, don't like it and trash can it. Yes, I do think 15 mins is too short, 6 or 8 hours would be a nice compromise.

And for gods sake, some of you guys are so cheap as not to pay a developer for his 1 or 2 dollar app, $5 at the most? Give me a break.

Jonneh says:

Let's all hold hands, join together and work out a solution to this spam filter issue instead of bantering. :) ~*HUGS FOR ALL*~

bladerunn3r says:

.

tim242 says:

@Jonneh: I hear ya on that. They should've fixed that by now. It makes me so mad, I could spit and swear haha

broth6 says:

A QR code would be nice. Good job AC

meyerweb says:

All I can say about the new refund limit is that I'll be buying a lot fewer applications. If the seller doesn't offer a free trial for me to try out first, I'm not likely to buy a paid app. There are plenty of free ones that will do most of what I need.

The idea that it's possible to really figure out an app in 15 minutes is ludicrous. I've downloaded more than a couple that seemed OK at first, but turned out to be unreliable, or cause conflicts, when tested more thoroughly.

The truth is that 24 hours isn't enough. Back in the heyday of PalmOS, most apps had a trial period of from 7 to 30 days after which they stopped working.

raven71#AC says:

So why was my last post marked spam. I have been reading much worse then Wheaties said in my first post

Clavis#AC says:

I think it's possible that some people think that first star means "rate this comment 1 on a scale of 1 to 3, 1 being worst". I assumed that was what it meant until I read the pop-up "Spam" label when I rolled over it just now.

Maybe it's just me, though.

bladerunn3r says:

I seriously doubt the people pointing out that piracy is stealing are also stealing music online. Isn't that kind of.... stupid?

tim242 says:

Yes bladerunner, that's the point. They are stupid. The same ones pointing out piracy are damn sure tethering...which is piracy of a service.

Menno says:

I pointed out piracy. I don't wirelessly tether, and I don't pirate music or videos. You're "Everybody" arguments arn't valid. Stop trying to justify yourself by saying "everyone else is doing it." Didn't you pay attention in high school? Even if they are that's no reason for you to do the same.

tim242 says:

I don't do anything because others are doing it. I do things for my own reasons. I just pointed out that the ones being holier than thou about piriting apps, are piriting services. Even the site's editor tried to justify tethering. I do not believe you when you say you do none of those things. I can find posts of yours that say differently. I noticed that you don't WIRELESSLY tether. If you tether at all, YOU ARE STEALING! Now, you'll try to justify yourself and others for piriting a service. Save it!

Menno says:

I don't tether. Period. I specifically mentioned wireless ttethering because you raised a stink about it in two posts. Im not justifying any pirating, YOU ARE.

tim242 says:

I love double standards, and the bitchy people that try to live by them.

pjfan91 says:

Just downloaded it tonight way better than toe old one.

krustee says:

I installed it on Ultimate Droid Drpoid X RC 2 and it worked just fine.

wtphoto says:

Ok so lets look at this fairly, yes I tether, I pay for the data on my phone but I use it to tether. Is it slighting the system yes it is. That being said when you pay the carrier fit tethering they are not giving you more data for tethering they are simply charging extra for something that is a) built into the operating system and b) there are free alternatives for. If you had the choice between a burger for $5 or the same kind of burger for free, which would you choose? If the carriers gave me more data to use for the purpose of tethering then I would be more than happy to pay the extra cost,but they don't so why would I choose the $5 burger? It is not the same situation with apps, a game or other app is a unique work that may have things in common worth other apps but is not exactly the same. That us why there is a problem with pirating apps. If there is a free asp that does the same thing as a paid app then why pay? But if the paid app has a untrue feature our is more functional then that dev deserves to be paid for their work in making it more functional or for bulging that feature in. why do you think vlingo made their app free after google released voice actions, because they new that no one was going to pay $10 for their app when googles free app worked just as well. while I think that the change in the refund time is a poor choice, I hope that it will make more devs go the route that levelup studios did with touiteur and have a free version that is functional but had some features locked until you purchase the premium unlock. I think that is a great way to do it. That way you get to try the functional app but if you want say a widget then you purchase the premium unlock and support the dev.

wtphoto says:

Sorry for the spelling errors my rant was typed in bed on my phone

dacp283 says:

Wtphoto I get what your saying but the bottom line is when you use a service such as tethering and don't render payment when you are required to by your carrier it's called theft of services. You can't compare severity it ethical levels of theft. it's theft no matter how you spin it.

Kiserai says:

News flash! YOUR CARRIERS KNOW WHEN YOU ARE TETHERING, EVEN IF YOU'RE DOING IT FOR FREE. It's been shown that they can tell the difference between regular cell phone data use and tethering. If they really gave that big of a crap about it, THEY WOULD CHARGE YOU.

However, if you aren't abusing it they usually tolerate you tethering for free. Like I said in an earlier post, I have never gone out of my way to get a tethering app. It came standard on my Nexus One when I upgraded to Froyo. Google gave me tethering and if AT&T had a problem with me using it in small doses every once in a while, I'm sure they would have let me know by now.

It's not thievery. It's not stealing. It's using what came with my phone and if AT&T chooses not to charge me for it then that's on THEM, not me.

Clavis#AC says:

This is so stupid. So if I have less than full signal strength, such that I can't tell how long the app download is going to take, I have to stop all other activity and stare like a paranoid lunatic at my phone, waiting for the second the download finishes so I don't lose half or all of my 15 minutes of tryout time, and *then* drop everything I'm doing at that moment and race through every feature? ESPECIALLY now that (thanks to Google as well) your download speed can be affected at any moment by automatically-updating Market downloads or (ironically) Google syncs?

This is beyond stupid. It will go down in history as one of the biggest missteps in Android history. It's like "Logan's Run" for apps. I'm beyond disappointed.

Google, don't turn into Gapple.

tim242 says:

Show me where it has been shown that carriers know when you are tethering. You can't, because it's simply not true. As has been pointed out, if you use a service that a carrier charges for, without paying, it is theft. This argument that the phone is capable, therefore it should be free, is laughable. Your phone comes with a lot of things, so I guess you should be able to talk for free because your phone has a dialer. Whether you agree or not, carriers charge for tethering. Therefore, use without payment is a theft of service. Stop trying to justify your theft. Carriers are the ones that have to build and maintain networks. They have to pay employees. What do devs do? Nothing but sit back and collect. So, get off of your highhorses.

marc300ib says:

OK i feel like an idiot, i have no idea were to download this, and is it available for 2.1

katvo says:

Your arguments are getting old, stop clogging this articles comment section and let it go.
No one is obviously changing their mind with you sitting in here trolling, invoking people to argue with you. :)

tim242 says:

Katvo: If you actually read the thread, you would see that menno and jesse potter started it all by telling everybody that pirating is bad, and can't be posted on here. Meanwhile, they are stealing services. This site even endorses such behavior. Of course they aren't going to change their minds. Hypocrytes always justify their own wrong-doing, while judging others for theirs.

Menno says:

Jessee edited someone linking to a site to download pirated games. YOU started the stink about hypocricy. And as I've stated numerous times. I don't pirate apps or services. Just because others might doesn't make it right. As for tethering on n1 (which I do not own) it is part of the os, and was offered before either company offered tethering for android. In fact, tmobile endorsed it for n1 since it was a dev phone. You're just an angry kid whose pissed off because people don't agree with you and find your piracy justified. You're not arguing here to make any change, you're trying to defend an indefensible position. You won't get anywhere, especially when you refuse to deal with the issue and instead rely on red herrings.

tim242 says:

Where do you see that I said I pirate apps? That's what I thought. I said I get why people do it. Yes, free tethering was offered on the n1. That's probably one of many reasons why other carriers decided not to offer the phone. Tmobile now charges for it. Anybody tethering without paying, is piriting a service. You tether with usb, so you are as much a pirate as anyone. As you can see, many people agree with my stance. If it makes you feel better to come on here bullying people, more power to you. But, I for one will not let your bs go unargued.

Menno says:

Ok. How many times do I have to say it? I DO NOT tether with usb. I don't tether. And popularity doesn't make you right, it just means more people are idiots. You told people how to pirate apps. You said you would pirate apps because 15 minutes is too short (1t is too short). But you are trying to justify pirating via straw men and red herrings. You're not standing up for anyone, you're not countering any position. You're screaming and bitching because you want everything free and someone called you out on it.

Menno says:

And that's where I'll leave it. You can't even read my "BS" so arguing against it is a wasted effort on your point, and doubly so on mine. To review since you seemed to have missed it: I do not pirate apps, I do not USB tether, I do not wirelessly tether, I do not use any services from my carrier (or an app developer) that I do not pay for if it requires payment. I'm not here to bully people. That's your job. Your self-entitled "Me first" bullcrap might be the rule rather than the exception online, but that doesn't make it a valid exception. That just means you know how to throw the loudest temper tantrums. You're the one who brought up the Pirating issue in this thread, even though you argued it under a previous article. You're the one who started calling people hypocrites and attacking them for their positions, not anyone else. If you're looking for a bully, it's behind your keyboard.

vdeglomini says:

Can't wait to get it..

bladerunn3r says:

Well Tim, you may not have said you personally pirate apps, but your very first post on this thread (near the top), exclaiming "I like Niggle's idea" does sound a lot like you are condoning it (Niggle's tutorial and subsequent defense of theft). If that is the case, just say so. You wouldn't be alone. Niggle articulated his position. You did not.

Second, as someone else pointed out, you keep returning to the same argument- insisting that everyone that disapproves of pirating apps MUST also tether or steal music, and therefore have no moral high ground to call app piracy "theft." Even if your premise WERE true, it may make them hypocrites, but it doesn't change the criminality of the behavior. If someone pirates apps, it's still theft.

tim242 says:

You are correct. That's the only point I was trying to make. They both are stealing. I just took issue with the fact that the site is so against pirating apps, but provides how-to's on how to pirate services.

Azurescens says:

Wow, 15 minutes... that's rediculous. I never liked the buy it to try it then refund if you don't like it model anyway. I simply don't buy anything that doesn't have a free version.

All this hubbub over something that hasn't even been implemented yet.

I read elsewhere that the main reason they chose the 15 minute figure is that most apps that were refunded were refunded in about that time but of course the people who do it in that short of time are the very same people they are trying to block -- those that download an app, back it up, and then refund; then reinstall the apk from the backup -- anyone who is genuinely evaluating an app will take a lot longer than 15 minutes. I don't believe you need to be rooted to do this, several free file managers allow you to back up apps. Before installing the new market I used a well known and free app to back up the old market apk in case the new one caused problems.

I know people who do this with paid apps but I don't myself, and have only ever refunded one app and it was because it simply did not work (force close) on my phone, but now I can tell you I am a lot less likely to buy a paid app now without that 24 hour cushion of safety.

If they think 24hrs is too long they could easily cut it in half to 12 and that is more than enough time to honestly evaluate an app. Different refund times for different apps is a bad idea. Just like different return/exchange times for retailers, it just contuses people.

New market is working great on the Droid Incredible and Moto Droid. Doesn't seem to work on the Fascinate. Yes it is stock. Too bad. I like the upgrade other than having everything on one page.