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HTC has $1.5 billion in the bank, but investors think the company's worth even less

Once the titan of Windows Mobile and a leading Android handset maker, HTC's fallen on such hard times that investors have deemed the company to be practically worthless. That's perhaps a bit hyperbolic, but following a tremendous 60 percent dive in the company's stock, it's now trading at a level that puts the market cap of the company well below the value of HTC's physical assets (factories, inventory, etc) and cash assets.

A few stock market terms for the uninitiated: a share of stock is a slice of ownership in the company, which in theory can give you a portion of their profits if the board so chooses (a dividend) and a voice in how the company's run. Companies that issue shares typically do so in huge volumes — HTC's been divided into nearly 828 million individual shares, so you'd need to buy several million shares for your voice to actually be heard by the powers that be.

A company's market cap is the combined value of all those shares. HTC's shares closed earlier today on the Taiwan Stock Exchange at $1.82/share, giving the company a market cap of $1.34 billion. That number is what it would take to buy every outstanding share of HTC — in essence, what HTC is worth.

That's a stunningly-low number for HTC, and represents a nearly 60 percent decline in value since the start of the year. At its peak in April 2011, HTC was worth $34 billion. Granted, at its peak HTC represented 80 percent of the Windows Mobile market and was dominating Android smartphone sales. The recent collapse of HTC handset sales in the face of stiff competition from Samsung, LG, and Apple has pushed the company to a new low in value, one where investors have practically decided that the company is worthless.

Investors are saying that HTC's worth less than the cash they have in the bank

HTC's balance sheet at the end of June 2015 listed total assets of $4.9 billion, including $1.5 billion in cash assets. Even if you subtract out the $2.6 billion in debt liabilities on HTC books, investors are still valuing a company with an equity value of $2.3 billion at nearly a billion less than that. Yes, people who trade in HTC stock are saying that HTC's worth less than the cash they have in the bank. That's not a good place for HTC, or any company, to be in. It's a signal that investors have zero faith in the company's long-term earnings potential, either in the form of eventually turning a profit or getting acquired by a larger firm.

The kicker is that HTC's a company that actually managed to turn a profit last quarter. Granted, we're talking about a measly $11 million profit, but that's better than the money that they were losing a year prior.

There are two companies that draw immediate comparisons to mind. The most recent is Yahoo, who was put into a very similar position. In 2014, Yahoo owned 20 percent of Asian internet retailer Alibaba, an asset worth $37 billion, which combined with their share of Yahoo Japan Corp (a technically independent company) put their investments at more than $45 billion. But on the day of the Alibaba IPO the stock market valued Yahoo at $41 billion — that's including the 20 percent stake in Alibaba. Investors were saying that the only thing that gave Yahoo any value was their assets in Asia.

The other company is one that, like HTC, pioneered early smartphones and played a major role in the mobile industry at the start of the decade: Palm. The number is $1.31 billion, the inflation-adjusted cost of HP's 2010 acquisition of Palm. Not only is HTC worth less as a company than the cash they have on hand, they're worth the same amount as Palm was when HP snapped them up, and Palm's not a company anybody associates with being a rousing financial success for anybody involved.

All of this doesn't paint a pretty picture for HTC. They might be turning a meager profit and have substantial cash on hand, but it's a grim position to be in. Investors are telling HTC's leadership that the company itself is worth nothing, that it is in fact dragging down the value of their other assets. Some might advise HTC to pack up shop and call it quits, as Michael Dell famously advised Steve Jobs on his return to Apple, but oblivion isn't the only option for HTC.

The company's clearly trying new things with the HTC Vive virtual reality headset, but even with its projected end-of-the-year release there's no saying whether it'll be enough to turn around their fortunes. HTC's expensive flagship One series smartphones aren't paying the bills — it's their mid-range Desire line that's seeing sales, claiming up to 20 percent of the market in India. HTC's also taking a hard look at where they need to make cuts to survive as a company, and they're expected to do so across the board.

There is hope for HTC. BlackBerry, a company that's been written off as dead for years now, managed to earn a profit of $28 million last quarter and has a market cap of $4 billion. HTC might not ever reclaim the throne of their glory days, but that doesn't mean they're worth nothing either.

Via: Bloomberg

Derek Kessler is Special Projects Manager for Mobile Nations. He's been writing about tech since 2009, has far more phones than is considered humane, still carries a torch for Palm (the old one), and got a Tesla because it was the biggest gadget he could find. You can follow him on Twitter at @derekakessler.

127 Comments
  • So sad. I love htc phones. Posted via the Android Central App
  • Bet you can get them for practically nothing very soon:) Posted via the Android Central App
  • And get no support afterwards or a updates Don't see how that's a good thing Posted From my Nexus 6/Nexus 7 2013/Surface pro 3
  • How they gonna do that silly uh oh thing if the go chapter 13? UH OH!! Posted via the Android Central App
  • Maybe you can be their attorney and structure the Uh Oh into the Chapter 13!! Posted Via my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 using the AT&T Network.
  • I used to love HTC. After the HTC Aria,HTC chacha, HTC sensation fail to get the proper Android update comparing to the same category devices of another manufacturers ( And I know many people with other HTC different devices have the same), HTC devices are never on my consideration again ever. Though they try to fix it with the 90 day guaranty last year, but it's too late, at least for me !
  • I'm a BlackBerry fan, but HTC was the only Android phone I actually liked, it was my favorite, so this is sad :( Posted via Android Central App
  • Whats a Blackberry?
  • A berry that is black Posted via the ONE M9
  • What's a BlackBerry fan?
  • You should try Windows. They need your good luck.
  • I so agree! Left my Z30 to come to Android via HTC. Have gotten quite used to my M9. Posted from my M9
  • Looks like you have the talent for backing the losing horse
  • sad HTC is circling the drain
  • They've been circling it for years.
  • There's a Gold, Silver, and Bronze medal finisher in OEMs now. All the rest are just consolation.
  • It would be cool if Apple would buy HTC and get in on the Android game. An M10 built by Apple would be the cat's pajamas.
  • I love HTC. All they need is a little support from the fans, and a fresh take on their devices. Maybe a near stock android experience running on their best in class hardware. I think they would dominate with that. (Maybe not dominate). Oh and better ads....their ads are...odd.
  • near stock ... might as well get a nexus ! sense = HTC period ! etc is close to death because they try to keep up with companies like samsung and apple and start listing to the customer base and give them what they want ! Awesome Design
    Awesome Camera !
    Great battery
    Keep Improving Sense
  • Right there with you. But unfortunately most people with great thoughts don't have a billion.....anything laying around. (Idk maybe you do but I sure as hell don't) So screw us. Something like that, which I would LOVE to see, would just not happen by a very long shot. So far they've been stubborn with their products and aren't doing enough to change that. They need to though. Posted via the Android Central App
  • as much as I wish I agreed with you, I don't think it's that simple. HTC is a lot more than just a phone away. from management, to customer service, marketing, advertising, product development, and everything in between, they're in need of a major overhaul. it's not as easy as running stock, removing the black bar, and improving their camera. I hope I'm wrong, but I think it'll take an Asus or someone else, to come in and rescue them. they need something like what Moto is getting from Lenovo, which is cash, marketing, and most importantly, and long term plan and clear cut vision. In short, they need a brand, and they need time, money, and patience in order to execute. That might seem like a lot of cash, but in their business it isn't. It'll be interesting to see what they do with the M10, and more specifically what distribution channel they take. I'm definitely rooting for them though.
  • MY opinion on the matter is everything getbretweir said above. He is 120% right.
  • Completely agree.. Sense was the root of their failure.. Also, dropping windows phones.. They should try one last attempt, 3 phones named like Audi names their cars. Something like, HTC H4, H6, & H8 (the # signifies the number of cores,size or megapixels - adjust accordingly). Make the lowest device high quality but affordable and the other 2 both high end in a 4.7" screen and a 5.5" screen. All running nearly stock Android or windows phone (not dual boot) , similar to Moto X meaning just a couple unique features. And advertise already! Stop being weird too, hire a totally different agency
  • I started a thread on the M9 forum and include some of the exact same things ... 3 phones, with their flagship coming in at 4.7" to cater to what seems like a vacant space so many android fans want to see filled, as well as 5.5" for the phablet crowd.
  • Sense is one of the best things about an HTC phone. If think it's funny when tech needs think that if only a company would change things only enthusiasts care about, the general public will but the phone.
  • My experience with sense was on my last htc phone (Evo).. I had the mogul (winmo) , the hero, and the Evo.. All slowed to a crawl to the point of not being usable. So I refused to give them another chance unless they dropped sense. Many people I know felt the same, most switched to Samsung. And not that sense is awful or anything now, but they're paying a lot for sense development and updates. Eliminate that. Focus on the hardware. Most people don't want anything complicated, they want it to as simple as possible. Stock android is very simple. Most common people are just texting, web browsing, and phone calls. So HTC efforts are only being utilized by their fan base anyway, which is obviously shrinking. The geeks will buy htc if it didn't have sense. I surely would.
  • Back in those days, Sense was shit. You're right. But ALL android skins were shit back then. They all slowed to a crawl. Even stock android back then was pretty nasty.
    Sense TODAY is one of the best Android skins out there, trumps Touchwiz by a mile.
    They are doing a great job with it and by putting all of the key features and services in the Play Store as opposed to being a part of the software load lets them update them as fast as possible, and outside MOTO, they are the only ones to take this approach and it is doing great things for them.
    I hate to see these stock numbers as I do not want to see them die or get absorbed by a company who doesn't take them in the right direction.
    But moving to stock android or near-stock would be a bad move. Take away the things that make your product different, and no one will want your product.
  • Sense was pretty good, compared to what some other phones were running. I enjoyed using it, and found it got better with each update. It would, however, be cool to have an HTC phone that is AOSP or CM based so that updates would come faster. With my M7, Sense was great, but you were a bit limited with options for custom ROMs if you wanted to get something up to date while also having decent battery life.
  • I disagree entirely about Sense being a problem for HTC. It's by far the best of the OEM skins, and stock Android just doesn't sell that well. Consumers who don't obsessively read Android blogs like extra features and social media aggregators, and Sense does that really well. I agree with your second and third points, though. Two or three models, all with basically the same specs but different sizes would be fantastic. I love what Sony and Apple do, offering essentially the same phone, but with different display sizes and battery capacities. HTC offering three flagship-specced devices at 4.6", 5.0" and 5.5" would be perfect. Then add in one low-end model (JUST one so that it can be built in large numbers with parts to compete with the Moto G in the $200 range) to serve the people who can't drop $500 on a phone.
  • HTC put out a flagship Windows Phone just last fall. it was the only flagship Windows Phone available last year and even then NO ONE BOUGHT IT! Not dropping Windows Phone faster was the mistake.
  • Maybe so...
  • They barely advertised it. What do you expect?
  • Give the fans something to support. Posted via the Android Central App
  • I disagree with the "near stock Android" argument. With the Moto G being as God as it is, why would anyone pay extra for an HTC phone if they ran similar software? They should have a lean build of Android with unique features. Posted via the Android Central App
  • Because theoretically, the HTC version would have a better screen, better camera, better battery life, and higher specs.
  • Well as of now no HTC mid range phone can beat this year's Moto G especially in Camara. Posted via the Android Central App on my Moto G 4G 2nd Gen
  • You sound like a fan boy, in the real world when your company is constantly in the red, the end result is always the same, the lenders "banks" come in and sell off everything cents to the dollar, I should know, I worked for a company that went through this scenario, and it's not a pretty sight. Posted via the Android Central App
  • So sad as they make amazing devices. Posted via the Android Central App
  • If they were amazing then htc wouldn't be going down. They always lack something big. Cameras, updates, imagination, false promises.... Posted via the Android Central App
  • Marketing Posted From my Nexus 6/Nexus 7 2013/Surface pro 3
  • Say what you want ... The M8 was an amazing device. Posted via the Android Central App
  • That's not enough Posted From my Nexus 6/Nexus 7 2013/Surface pro 3
  • It was an amazing device, except the camera (Alright, the camera was decent, but wasn't upgraded from the year prior). Also, no matter how good it was, nobody knew about the phone because it wasn't marketed properly. I actually recommended it to a friend of mine last year when he asked which device to get. He had never even heard of the brand, but I told him it was a fantastic device, better than the S5. I can't say the same about HTC phones anymore
  • Except for the camera not having OIS, the HTC One M9 is an overall better smartphone than the S6. A reason Apple continues to gain market share is the disappointing customer experience with Samsung's phones. Unfortunately, HTC brand awareness is insufficient.
  • Bullshit, they are losing because Apple and Samsung dominate when it comes to marketing. Everyone knows the Galaxy and the iPhone. Customers walking in to retail stores want what their friends and family have, not something different.
    HTC does make great products, they just don't have that household name like Samsung and Apple anymore.
  • If I had a lot more hope in them I'd buy in while they're down. But I'm not seeing anything great coming from them anytime soon... Which is sad cause my first Android phone and love for Android was with the desire and a few of their other phones. Posted via the Android Central App
  • The One X was my first android phone, and I loved that. Followed it up with the M7 and I loved that even more. But like you, I've lost faith that HTC can put out another great phone after the disasters that were the M8 and M9... talk about ruining a beautiful thing >_<
  • Uh the m8 was great lol, far from a disaster Posted via Android Central App
  • My first Android phone was the Galaxy S Epic 4G on Sprint, but you know what I wanted more but couldn't have because it was sold out everywhere? The HTC Evo 4G. So later on I got the Evo 4G LTE (One X). I switched over to VZW around the time of the One M7 and really wanted that but VZW got it way later than everyone else, so I ended up with the S4 once again. Now I chose to use an S6 because I believe it is better in almost every aspect. I want HTC to succeed because I like them and always have, but I can't see them going much further
  • Htc was my first phone , how I use to love my htc tilt 2 :) Posted via the Android Central App
  • Is there a chance we will see the M10 next year? At this rate hard to believe the company will survive and make a flagship. Probably they are done now. Posted via the Android Central App
  • If the M10 does come out next year or even earlier, it better be similar to the glorious evleaks render from early 2015 and combine a great camera sensor likely from Sony as well as post processing which does its job superbly in order for people to regain interest. Cynicism Evolved
  • That's the problem, don't know if they have enough money to execute and put out a great flagship. Time will tell .. Posted via the Android Central App
  • I would've had the M9 if it looked like that @evleaks render ... that was seriously the nicest phone I've ever seen. looking back it really screwed them, cause so many of us were disappointed when we realized it wasn't gonna look like that. at the time we all just figured we'd wait a month for the S6, and by that time the damage was done. I think they'll definitely have the M10 and it's probably in the middle of being worked on right now. I think they're going to have to strongly consider using the same direct-to-consumer distribution strategy as moto. the good thing about that is they'll be able to offer a high quality product at a reasonable price. the problem is they don't have the budget to market it properly. they're gonna have to get creative.
  • They're gonna have to get the camera right this time. They can't afford to have a subpar flagship camera for 4 years in a row now. For a quick perspective, let's see why HTC's recent flagship cameras aren't so great. M7: Purple all over unless you've got a later batch
    M8: Much better than the M7 overall but lacked detail, compared with the LG G3 and GS5, but some find it good enough.
    M9: Too many megapixels (IMO) and truly awful post-processing. Hardware seems to be fine. For the M10, a perfect camera recipe would be exactly like the one found on the S6 and G4, albeit with some tweaks. They can go with a Toshiba sensor (though I assume many will want HTC to go with the Sony Exmor RS sensors since they've been using an ST Microelectronics sensor on the M7 and an OmniVision sensor on the M8) and they should nail the post-processing and here's the most important bit; OIS.
  • You forgot the pricing. Unless you're Samsung or Apple the days of $600-$700 flagship phones are over. How is a a $600 HTC flagship going to compete internationaly with the likes of the Motorola Style, Zenfone, Idol3 etc?
  • Agreed. Flagships are getting lower in prices. If it's the $399 Moto X to the LG G4 price drop to around $479 last time I checked, flagships will probably see a drop in prices soon, unless you're Apple.
  • Nothing they do with their next model will have them. Their culmination of problems are too large for a single or multiple smartphone models to fix. As much as people harp on cameras prowess, the Nokia lineup had arguably the best cameras but that wasn't enough to save them. Posted via the Android Central App
  • this
  • This. Anyone who thinks that only removing a black bar and improving the design is going to save HTC needs to take a business management course. It's one thing to have a cool product, but management and product management is another. Posted from the LG G4 "Spigen + Anime" Edition. Wait, what?
  • The problem with Nokia is they had great cameras but their hardware was dated next the the Android flagships and Windows Phone was the real problem. Especially with the Lumia 1020 which had terrible shutter lag. Even though it had a great camera. Posted via the Android Central App on my Moto G 4G 2nd Gen
  • Even if they do who's going to buy a phone that may be abandoned a month after you buy it?
  • that's a really good point
  • At least they're doing better than BlackBerry. Posted via the Android Central App
  • They CAN make compelling devices, they haven't been lately though. Make a couple of great phones a year, advertise what they do well, try to pull yourselves out of this hole. You can do it, you've proven you can make great phones. Posted via the Android Central App
  • Alphabet should buy them. Nope, not liking that. It sounds weird. They should tho Posted via the Android Central App
  • I'm actually surprised that AC ran this story. HTC and AC have always been close. Posted via the Android Central App
  • They should reconsider the possibility of being acquired by Asus Posted via the AC app
  • totally agree ... I started a thread on the M9 forum and said exactly that. also said something similar in one of my comment here. they need a Lenovo type cash infusion, so that they can reinvent their brand, have the time to execute their vision, and a marketing budget to communicate it with their consumers. making an awesome phone is the easy part, it's everything else that'll be a challenge. distribution, time, management, marketing and brand require a gigantic shift in philosophy, and I just don't see it being possible without, as you suggested, someone like Asus. Personally I'd love to see it. I have 0 clue what issues both have internally, but as a fan looking in from the outside it seems like that relationship could definitely benefit the consumer.
  • They probably should. They need the cash badly. I hope ASUS does it the same way like Lenovo and gives HTC some financial security but let the company do its own thing, but offer some support if the need arises. ASUS can also get some UI stuff from HTC to improve ZenUI.
  • I would not compare HTC to Palm, as Palm was purchased to get them out of the way. Palm's market was a dying breed anyway, as practically all functions can be done by smartphones now. They reached their peak with the Tungsten T3, then refocused on the smartphone market with the bulky and ugly Treo series which left their core business to die. HTC had a bad release of the M9, mostly thanks to the lack of attention on the camera and unrealistic renderings, then throw in a ton of FUD from a competitor's homeland, and their flagship was dismissed. Sad thing is that the M9 actually is a very good phone, but few give it a second look because HTC has been terrible at marketing, while Apple is great at it and and Samsung is good at it. This is why a lot of people consider the iPhone 6 as being absolutely perfect in every possible way, and how dare you think that ANY other device could do anything as good as the phone from heaven. Apple has perfected the emperor's clothes. In reality, the camera is the iPhone's savior, because it is the only thing it does better than most, and now that crown has been taken away by Samsung and LG. But if you think about it Samsung's saving point with the S6 is also the camera. It's certainly not the UI or the multitasking or the storage or the battery life. At least the S6 has an awesome screen, which Apple does not. Which leaves Apple in a position of being inferior in everything to the M9 except for the camera... yet Apple sells millions of them. Perception overrides reality.
  • what do you mean apple doesn't have a good screen? it says retina display so it has to be good!! lol
  • in marketing, perception IS reality. First, the HTC situation is similar to Palm to a point. Suspect hardware with an excellent user interface. Have you forgot that Palm made one heck of an OS that is still floating around out there today? Android and IOS still haven't matched Synergy in WebOS. Failure to deliver hardware that the market demanded killed the Pre. That and carrier exclusivity issues. They hung on Sprint only when the carrier was suffering which limited their scope. Then, when they released the Pre 2, they cut another exclusivity deal with Verizon only, completely pushing faithful Sprint users to another OS (like me). Don't get me started on the Pre 2 release in Europe first, also. Not a bad idea for an international company, but bad marketing move for a US company that is struggling. Oh, and Apple only having a good camera, come on. The hardware and build of Apple phones are amazing. I don't care for IOS and really don't care for ITunes, but I can't say anything about that hardware.
  • Spot on analysis! Posted via the Android Central App
  • webOS still lives on, albeit as a Smart TV OS. I actually have an LG webOS TV.
  • Htc,cameras aside is my second favorite brand,but regardless of quality they just don't have the hype anymore. Also I feel like the average user looks at the design and premium build and somehow finds it less accessible. It sounds silly,but people really do prefer the simplest average looking phones. Where Samsung usually comes in. Posted via the Android Central App
  • Do they have any patents? Maybe Google will buy them.
  • The hold an LTE patent that could have potentially blocked the iPhone 5. At the time, the judge presiding over that case stated that the patent claim was clear and convincing. I'm not certain on what the outcome was for that. Posted via the Android Central App
  • Really sad to hear. Loved the M7 and M8. Both my favorite Android phones I've ever owned. Hoping HTC can comeback strong in 2016 with the M10.
  • Pretty darn sad, as the One M7 is still one of my top 3 favorite phones, even though it's replaced by the LG G4 as my daily. I don't blame this squarely on the One M9 as they were in this situation ever since the One X. I said this in a forum thread and I'll say it again. Their "One" line already has way too many phones, made even worse in the "Desire" line. The "One" line is supposed to be their flagship, like what "Galaxy S" and "Galaxy Note" are to Samsung, "LG G" is to LG and "XPERIA Z" is to Sony. There's already too many variations of the One M9 itself that makes the One line already a lot bigger than what the Galaxy S, Galaxy Note, LG G and XPERIA Z lines had in a single year. HTC MUST drastically slim down its product portfolio to make it streamlined and less confusing. Less is more, and even Samsung has started to figure this out. Action speaks louder than words, so I'd like to see some effort done instead of the last 2 statements which basically were just words. Learn from Motorola and have THREE product lines that cater to 3/3.5 sections of the market, like; 1) HTC One line for the high-end and upper midrangers (like the Moto X line)
    2) HTC Desire line for the midrangers (like the Moto G line)
    3) HTC *insert name here* for budget-focused phones. (like the Moto E line) Also, they really need much better marketing. The early HTC ads were just genius. They were brilliant pieces of marketing and whoever were in charge back then should be brought back since their ads today are just in the realm of "Meh, skipping this".
  • I read your post in the thread I started and totally agree, especially when you discussed all the brands in Asia.
  • Exactly. It's absurd. Made even more so when HTC said they were going to "slim down their product portfolio" 2 times already but all I see is their product portfolio getting bigger and even more confusing. Kinda like what Samsung did for some time until they got some brains after the S6.
  • Nokia/Microsoft is doing the same with their phones, HTC needs slim down the phone list like Nokia/Microsoft are doing Posted via the Android Central App on my HTC Desire 610
  • Still slimming down the amount of phones the make a year won't make any difference as far as Microsoft /Nokia is concerned. Can't comment about HTC. Posted via the Android Central App on my Moto G 4G 2nd Gen
  • I'd compare what HTC needs to do more to Moto than anyone else. A clear brand and distribution strategy that'll allow them to offer a reasonably priced phone without sacrificing quality. The problem obviously is Moto has Lenovo, so they can afford to be patient, which at least in the US will definitely be needed as it'll take at least a couple of years before consumers are comfortable buying phones up front. Verizon's revamped pricing structure, which obviously Moto was privy to prior to announcing their distribution strategy, will help facilitate that process, and even though people can still apply for credit (with Moto or via credit card), it's still going to take some time for people to adapt. Patience isn't a luxury HTC can afford, and they don't have the marketing budget (or the expertise), so it's not an apples to apples comparison. They're going to have to get creative with their marketing efforts, and even if they make the "perfect" phone, the reality is it probably still won't work. Hopefully they'll prove us all wrong and turn it around, but I doubt it, and apparently so do investors.
  • This idea of "what HTC should do" has been floating around for years. It seems like everyone but HTC know what needs to be done. I agree with you completely that they need to slim things down. It has been confusing since my first HTC phone in 2012, and it's just as confusing - or even more - today in 2015 when I go to a HTC store in China. So I agree, it's a good idea and you're hitting the nail on the head... but this isn't really the root of the problem. Their management is the root of their troubles. If these guys haven't figured it out yet, then they don't stand a chance of getting it right in the future.
  • They need to rethink their whole staff. HTC makes nice devices but there's too many variants for the same phone. Posted via the Android Central App on my HTC Desire 610
  • Exactly. They've been saying that they will for around 2 times already (3 if you count this one) but there's no action. In fact, it seems to be getting even bigger. IMO, the One line in the M7 years were done right. There were only 3 variants; 1) The regular M7
    2) The smaller One M7 Mini
    3) The larger One M7 Max phablet
  • The Moto X is actually Motorola's flagship just like Samsung's Galaxy line and Sony's Xperia Z line as well. Posted via the Android Central App on my Moto G 4G 2nd Gen
  • what is that in response to? not trying to be a wise guy just wondering what was misstated for you to clarify that.
  • Yeah, that was exactly what I mentioned in my OP. The Moto X line is currently Moto's flagship and upper-midrange line, hence the Moto X Style and Moto X Play respectively. Though I personally think calling the Moto X Play the Moto G Maxx might have made more sense, but that's just me.
  • HTC are awesome, M7 still my favorite device of all time. Wouldn't be surprised if xiaomi or oppo bought HTC. dreaming of electric sheep
  • HTCs next phone needs to be priced at less than $500 dollars or they will get massacred by Samsung, Apple, Motorola OP2, Zenfone 2, idol 3, etc. The cellphone market has gotten so much more competitive in just the last 6 months that HTC can no longer charge $600+ for their phones, only Samsung and Apple can get away with that. Motorola figured it out and HTC needs to also.
  • Sometimes a company needs to hit the bottom in order to find itself. Perhaps they can rise to the occasion and begin to build some great stuff. I love my HTC M8. Posted via the Android Central App
  • My first smartphone was an HTC Inspire 4G. Since then, I've tried a few phones from Samsung and LG but I always end up missing my HTC. I got back into them with the M7 and upgraded to an M8. Their phones definitely have a different style and language. I think this is why people shy away from them. The phone feels too different. I'm not saying this is a bad thing at all, but I think people look for more of the same. Look at Windows 10. Microsoft had to revert their new design back to the old one because it felt too different. It offered the same functionality, it just looked too different. HTC is more of a designer brand in this day and age and the average consumer doesn't really go for a lot of designer products without a good reason. The M7 was a perfect example of this. Glowing reviews (excluding the camera) from critics and enthusiasts but lackluster sales. I think it just has to do with their designer style. The key to success for them is to show people that their phones aren't just for the designer geeks, that regular people can have nice things too. Apple is way too good at this. So overall, I think it is a marketing issue and not quite as much of a hardware issue. I also think people make way too big of a deal about cameras. I have taken some amazing pictures with my M8. They aren't the highest resolution, but I don't need them to be. The colors are vivid and low light is wonderful (The M9 was a bit of a downgrade in my opinion). But in all reality, if I want the money shot I will use a full body camera with real optics. Not a smartphone. Overall, I just hope they don't just throw in the towel. A merger with a brand like ASUS could help, but i don't want them to become completely absorbed by the other company. I don't care if they are the biggest smartphone maker in the world, I just want them to keep making great phones with a different style, because marketing just isn't their thing. I think they need to go back and be true to their slogan, "HTC, quietly brilliant."
  • Out of all this, it amazes me that some people will say the most irrational comments about what HTC could have done to prevent this. 1. HTC should listen to their customers. - yes that makes sense given that they have less than a 4% market share, their customer base is relatively small. Also listening to internet users who think that removable batteries are a must to be successful is laughable. 2. HTC should ditch the black bar or reduce the bezel - like that really will make a big impact.. 3. HTC should put a better cameras in their phones. - See Nokia 930,1040,808 etc with outstanding cameras but didn't save Nokia from their fate. 4. HTC should match the Evleaks render - no comment. Posted via the Android Central App
  • Agreed. These will be welcomed but won't save the company. What really needs to be done are slimming down their insanely bloated product portfolio and maybe an exec reshuffle.
  • Absolutely! Those execs (Chou and Wang) should have stepped down long ago. I think they are out of sync with reality big time. The marketing approach that occurred under their leadership was an indicator. I'll give the so-called Internet nerds credit for one thing they suggested. Their marketing ideas were exact what HTC should have adopted. Posted via the Android Central App
  • You can have the very best phone in the world but if no one knows about it, then it's not gonna sell much. Although I think their situation won't be as bad if the M9 ended up looking like the evleaks render, I still think it wouldn't completely get them out of their situation. The issue lies way deeper than the M9.
  • I have never owned an HTC phone, but had the M9 looked like the evleak render and had a camera as good as the S6 or G4, I would own an HTC right now instead of Samsung.
    3rd year of the same phone and a crappy cam didn't help them at all.
  • I probably might have an M9 now, but given that the 810 is a problematic SoC, I still might have gone with the G4, but it's more likely that I'd have an M9 had it looked like the evleaks render. Also, the G4's camera was a major selling point for me. This will hurt some fans, but honestly, at MWC, Samsung's phone looked a lot better than the M9. Sorry to say that to all the fans, but it's true.
  • I partly agree with you. There's no doubt HTC's issues go way beyond their actual phone. Who is HTC? What's their brand and their vision? Their management, customer service, and most of all, marketing needs to be blown up and started over from the top down. I agree that it's probably too late at this point. that said, I do think they definitely got way to complacent and needed to overhaul their actual devices. we all have our own opinions, but clearly their product development could improve also.
  • You're right Nokia made great cameras but they had an aging OS in Symbian and a clustered and a mess of an OS the is Windows Phone those are what held back Nokia. It's also probably too late for HTC now. Posted via the Android Central App on my Moto G 4G 2nd Gen
  • I agree with Giga.
  • Part of their problem came from not releasing their top end phone in the states,and from not competing with LG and Samsung on their camera. I liked my m8 but didn't want a incrimental update in the m9. They really needed to do better Posted from my Samsung S6 Active
  • Its a shame to see any company on the brink with a market share that helps to prevent monopoly, but HTC didn't stay fresh enough for the majority... They one of the first to adopt a (full) metal frame when that was all that was talked about. But its been done now. The camera on m7/m8 was a huge step in the wrong direction... The trend was for metal and quality camera.... So they polarise the two... And ultimately full metal made no sense as most users add a protective case to secure their purchase an make themselves a little more unique in the crowd. 3 iterations later and its the same mould... They still have time to reverse whats happening but need to move quick with something new. IMO. Posted via the Android Central App
  • I have owned one HTC phone and that is the Titan II uhm I am pretty sure its not even spelled like that. Posted via the Android Central App
  • I think we found the HTC fanbase's equivalent of Richard Yarrell and his name is Cordawgfritolay. Lol A butthurt fanboy that can't handle the fact that that HTC has flaws. Posted via Android Central App
  • There is a certain level of fantasy land to the stock market vs what happens in the real world on the ground. Wasn't it not too long ago GM or Ford were actually delisted from the NYSE? Posted via Android Central App with my LG G3
  • So what will happen to HTC?? Its really sad as i just got my M8 this year and the company is going down the drain so fast. They were one of the first to use aluminium on building their flagships which succedded in captivating most of the smartphone consumers plus a stepping stone for the other android companies to up their Game in using different materials in making their smartphones. Posted via the Android Central App
  • Hopefully they go the same route as Moto and a bigger company buys them in order to give them some financial security. But they really need an exec reshuffle, a much more streamlined product line and much better marketing like those early HTC ads, which were genius. The M9 may be pretty disappointing for many of us, but it definitely isn't the sole reason why HTC is dying. You can have the very best phone in the world but if no one knows about it, then it's not gonna sell.
  • Reading a lot of irrational comments about what HTC can or should have done to save themselves. There is nothing HTC could have done to save themselves from their current situation. Not a better camera, not removing black bars at the bottom and no amount of advertising could stop their slides. HTC is simply caught in the usual vicious cycle of market commoditization. Nothing and I mean nothing they can do as the company is currently constructed can save them. Here is what I mean. HTC is in the same position as the likes of "One Plus," actually right now they are in an even worst position because of all their fix costs which those guys don't have. HTC is a box shipper (no control of the OS, Platform, or economy of scale) just like the other 1000 other android device makers out there. When you are in a commoditized market and you are a box shipper, your best and only way to compete is on price, you get there by cutting costs. And it is a hard thing to do, because you will be shopping from the sources as your competitors (One Plus, Xioami, Moto, Huawei, etc...) That means, cutting your costs down as much as possible, even lower than the others to give you room to compete on price. No matter how high as HTC may think of themselves, the fact is they are a box shipper, no better then the rest and in an even worst position then a lot of the Chines oem's they are competing with. HTC is caught in a no win situation. They can't compete on price and survive because of their fix costs (employees, buildings etc). They need to cut deep to become lean like the Chinese oem's which will deprive them of the little customization advantage/disadvantage they have. If they do that, then they become just like the Chinese oem's and playing those guys game, a game they can't win. It's either they take the plunge and jump all in with that thinking knowing it might buy them a little more time with no light at the end of the tunnel or they keep the status quo, and still have a slow death. The thing is, they do not have a 3rd option, unlike Samsung, they do not have other businesses that can help them shoulder any of that. No amount of changes to their phone can change their fortunes, they have to deal with the situation of the current market, which is now a rush down to zero, meaning competing on price with the Chinese (a no win proposition).
  • I think that HTC needs another Evo.... Posted via the Android Central App
  • If the LG mobile phone division was a stand alone company they'd be in a worse situation than htc is currently in. Posted via the Android Central App
  • HTC needs to do what Dell did a few years ago. They were in a similar situation so they bought back all their stock and went private again. http://www.forbes.com/sites/connieguglielmo/2013/10/30/you-wont-have-mic...
    Also they need to go back to their promise from a few years ago about only having 3 models. A high end flagship, a quality mid level phone, and a good low end model. They also need to support them for at least as long as Google supports their Nexus models.
  • They really ran this company into the ground in only a few years by making few big mistakes(bad cameras on flagships repeatedly, bad BoomSound implementation repeatedly, bad chip recently, bad bezels repeatedly, bad ads repeatedly, etc.). I no longer have any sympathy for this company.
  • First my Palm died (RIP) now HTC is struggling. I've had an HTC phone every year since the HTC Mogul on Sprint 2006.
  • Bummer, I'd hate for HTC to stop making phones. I really like the all-metal design and Sense. The Evo 4G was my first Android phone, and I loved my M7. I'm currently happy with the M9, although I was initially disappointed it didn't match the Evleaks renders. For the past few years, I've been using two lines so I can enjoy both Android and iPhone. I don't really feel loyalty to a particular brand or platform; however, when I try other Android OEMs, they just don't seem like a good fit for me as far as the software experiences, build materials, and size. Maybe I'll feel differently when I'm ready to upgrade again if HTC is no longer around, though. Otherwise, the iPhone will likely become my best option for an all-metal flagship in the 4.7- to 5.2-inch range, not to mention the Apple Watch currently being the best smartwatch option for my small wrist. I'll be more interested than ever to see how Android OEMs treat the non-phablet space. Anyway, if closing the business is inevitable, I'd like HTC to make a great M10 and go out with a bang.
  • Doubt we'll ever see an M10. If we do, I'd like to see it released by Apple.
  • Ouch. That's one big fall from grace :S
  • I have been saying this for close to two years now, this company is DONE. Posted via the Android Central App
  • Really liked the M7. What happened to their development team after that?
  • Maybe they got laid off.
  • HTC Needs to get a better camera maker that Toshiba sensor was awful
  • Sell HTC to Google and make them the Nexus phone makers for all future Nexus phones
  • My HTC One S work very good after 3 years i will just change battery...htc4life Posted via HTC One S black beast :d
  • Htc chairwomen made this mistake, almost totally. They need to re-see htc again. Posted via the Android Central App