HTC One

HTC to appeal decision as Google works to invalidate the patent altogether

Nokia has snagged yet another patent victory against HTC in German court today. Following a trial hoping to prove that HTC's Android-powered phones infringed Nokia's patent for transferring data over NFC or Bluetooth (that'd be Android Beam), Nokia walks away with a complete sales ban of all of the Taiwanese company's products in Germany. Nokia is not required to license patent EP1148681 as it isn't required for basic functions of the phone, but we can think Nokia would be willing to accept some money to stop further bans. 

Understanding that Nokia's litigious efforts may be of harm to the entire Android ecosystem, Google has been working to invalidate the patent to keep these kinds of bans from happening. Additionally, rumor has it that Motorola and Nokia are in talks to license the patent in the meantime. As we would all expect, HTC will be appealing the ruling to try and put its devices back on sale in one of the most important European markets.

Source: FOSS Patents; Via: Engadget

 
There are 118 comments

sbtim says:

Well, that sucks for HTC.

bigtnew says:

Sucks for Germany too.

Posted via my hTc one with a cracked screen!

its sucks for nokia more. they are about to lose their remaining friends' good will. We didn't like apple doing it either.

rafaelluik says:

I hope so.
Boycott Nokia!

DWR_31 says:

Are we already boycotting Nokia?

Posted from my "KNOX-FREE" 4.3 Sprint GS3...!!!

DWR_31 says:

Notice how they won't go after Samsung?

Posted from my "KNOX-FREE" 4.3 Sprint GS3...!!!

NoNexus says:

It is easier to go after a smaller company to establish precedent, then go after the big fish. that and easy money

The software alliance did that a few years ago going after the mom & pop operations but they never got around to the bigger guys.

mwara244 says:

And Nokia's next phone release is an android phone too. So will they sue themselves next?

I get it though, go after a smaller company that cost less to take to court, and if they win, they can establish evidence to every other manufacturer using the same designs and bigger for more money. Would love to see the patent date and their devices that use it. I have not seen a nokia device with nfc.

sidgouts says:

Never go full retard.

TheDu9du says:

I can't possibly boycott them more. I haven't bought anything from them ever. Although I did let 2 purchases pass by my face.
Oh no!!...
I caused this. I brought down HTC.

Troneas says:

initially, apple had a case. samsung was blatantly copying not only the hardware but the design of the phones as well. then it got ridiculous. nokia is making a fuss over a tiny peace of hardware no larger than a screw.

Samsung copied a square?

Posted via Android Central App

someguy01234 says:

Well, you can pony up like HTC did by making a license agreement with Apple (no doubt involving HTC paying some royalties) which gives HTC the privilege to make phones that use the same shape like the iPhone without being sued.

mwara244 says:

Flat screens, rectangular devices with rounded corners, why haven't TV Manufacturer's gone after apple for copying their design?

BldyIdt says:

Yeah. I'm sure people are sooooo confused when holding an HTC One and an iPhone in their hands...

Ry says:

I'm not sure you know what you're talking about.

Apple vs. Samsung isn't the same as Apple vs. HTC. I don't think trade dress has been in any case for Apple outside of it's issues with Samsung.

Posted via Android Central App

Nokia's patent isn't about using a specific piece of hardware in a phone, it's about a process of transferring data between two devices over NFC or Bluetooth...

still1 says:

which is absolutely pathetic.. This also is a process that transfers data between 2 device when you do Tap and pay(NFC) via google wallet in store.

SEGROUKIN says:

I'm sorry but what exactly are those processes? Is there a specific way of sending files over NFC and bluetooth?

Happy '2013s'

bradley y says:

Fuck shitkia.

Posted via Android Central App

rampage1979 says:

Not just Htc basically with this victory they can start going after the bigger fish ie: Samsung, LG, Motorola, Sony they all use this technology because it's an android feature called "android beam"

Posted via Android Central App

Troneas says:

F*** you nokia and your patent trolling. try producing a phone someone actually wants for a change. then again, i suspect this is what decadent companies do.

drokssilva says:

Nokia, makes VERY good phones, that many want.

And as for the patent trolling, I think its wrong, but they do own the parents so they have the right to sue should they chose.

Posted via my defective Nexus 7(2013)

moises1204 says:

that is why they are selling so many!

drokssilva says:

They actually are selling more smart phones then they ever have.

Posted via my defective Nexus 7(2013)

Jay Holm says:

Your saying their selling more smartphones than they ever have? Does that include more than what they sold when they were King of the mobile world?

Posted using Android Central App on my Samsung Galaxy S4 T-Mobile

fernandez21 says:

Uh, not really. Take a look at how many Symbian phones they were selling before they announced to switch to windows phone.

Which still isn't very many

Posted via Android Central App

Nreeldeep says:

You mean selling so many like the HTC One?

Jay Holm says:

Less than 10% market share quantifies as "many" wanting Nokia's WP's?

Posted using Android Central App on my Samsung Galaxy S4 T-Mobile

germcevoy says:

Read about the case before your fuck Nokia comments. Not all patent claims are trolling. HTC dug their own hole here and are paying the price.

Posted via Android Central App

drokssilva says:

+One (Get It?).

Posted via my defective Nexus 7(2013)

NoNexus says:

Nokia screwed themselves by not embracing Android, fell behind and are trying to dig out on other OEMs backs.

I am not saying that what they are putting out there isn't valid, because I didn't read the suit, but they are looking for the courts to force HTC to settle on Nokia's terms.

It doesn't help that HTC is chum in the water either

-----------------------------------------
sent from my DROID Eris, made by Nokia, powered by iOS 7 via BBM

drokssilva says:

True.
P.S- Why iOS 7, why not iOS KitKat

Posted via my defective Nexus 7(2013)

NoNexus says:

I only listed outdated things that no one cares about in my sig

drokssilva says:

Oh. Makes perfect sense.
Where's the Google+1 button

Posted via my defective Nexus 7(2013)

drokssilva says:

You didn't put in Sony!

Posted via my defective Nexus 7(2013)

...because Sony makes some great devices?

NoNexus says:

No, just cannot include everything that no one cares about. Maybe version 2

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sent from my DROID Eris, made by Nokia, powered by iOS 7 via BBM

You might want to look at their global sales.

planoman says:

I would take a Nokia over an HTC any day.

someguy01234 says:

I'll take an Android phone over Microsoft phone any day.

moises1204 says:

all 5 of you share the same sentiment!

Jay Holm says:

I can't allow myself to like a comment by a "male" wearing a bra!!! Smh!!!

Posted using Android Central App on my Samsung Galaxy S4 T-Mobile

NoNexus says:

Nokia could have made a great Android phone, and the Lumia hardware is nice.

We obviously are not Windows phone people... So we really cannot say much.

-----------------------------------------
sent from my DROID Eris, made by Nokia, powered by iOS 7 via BBM

tdizzel says:

First...is now banned in Germany

I see what you did there.

But I don't think the First was ever on sale in Germany.

bawboh86 says:

Lucky them...

Anthony W says:

WiFi direct is faster so why not get rid of transfer over Bluetooth altogether?

Jlav78 says:

WiFi isn't available everywhere yet.

-----------------------------------
SOON BACKANSWER!

WiFi direct is not the same thing as needing WiFi everywhere.
WiFi direct creates a local peer to peer connection.

Having to be forced to use just Wifi and not NFC or Bluetooth is kind of a hassle.

TheDu9du says:

Aight. Bluetooth is so much easier and you can do it from your own spot. And with cases preventing NFC happening. Bluetooth seems like a no-brainer.

Hunter Petit says:

HTC has it bad enough. :-(

Posted from the Google Nexus 7 2012 via Android Central App

drokssilva says:

Nokia has it worse. They're being bought by Microsoft.

Posted via my defective Nexus 7(2013)

return_0 says:

No matter what company you are, you don't have it as bad as BlackBerry...

drokssilva says:

Truer words have never been spoken. I think Dasani would do better then Blackberry if their was no water left in the world.

Posted via my defective Nexus 7(2013)

TheDu9du says:

Actually, I'd rather go broke than getting bought by Microsoft.

Some offers are too good to refuse..

Posted via Android Central App

fernandez21 says:

The ghost of Palm would argue that statement.

Nreeldeep says:

I wonder who will buy HTC.

NoNexus says:

The Chinese, seriously.

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sent from my DROID Eris, made by Nokia, powered by iOS 7 via BBM

flipponater says:

Htc just cant get anything to go their way

posting while eating gummybears in your girlfriends bedroom

Wow gfz bedroom ha ha ha

Posted via Android Central App

Wow gfz bedroom ha ha ha

Posted via Android Central App

Mikey47 says:

Sales bans should only be allowed if it can be proven that it is the patented technology that is causing monetary damages to the patent holder.

In other words that it can be shown that someone purchasing the HTC One because it has Bluetooth. If it didn't have Bluetooth they would have purchased a Nokia device.

Posted via Android Central App

flipponater says:

But how could you justify yes or no on that

posting while eating gummybears in your girlfriends bedroom

I think that's kinda the point. It makes it hard then.

Posted via Android Central App

Nreeldeep says:

That's like saying you can only prosecute someone who burglarized your house if you can prove that the burglar benefitted from the items he stole.

Patent wars are starting to get out of order.
There are only so many ways you can draw a square.
Patent law suits should make logical sense

Posted via Android Central App

That's not really how it works, though. A patent covers a technology, not whether or not another company actually profits or gains sales from use of that technology. If a company uses patented tech without licensing it and doesn't make money from it that doesn't mean that they haven't infringed on the patent.

And lets be clear that this isn't a patent on the use of Bluetooth, it's a patent on using NFC or Bluetooth to transfer data between two devices.

I don't get how/why only HTC devices are being attacked when basically every new android device has the functionality. Maybe they're just picking on HTC for some reason?

Posted via Android Central App

Fuducky says:

Probably the pecking order since HTC is smaller than other Android OEMs and most vulnerable right now. Maybe they're jealous HTC got the red dot award for it's windows phone. Cheap move by Nokia to stifle competition. Now that they are Microsoft owned they may go after others which is why Google is finally stepping in. I hope to enjoy more HTC products in the future so naturally Nokia can go @#$% itself.

travaz says:

If you Can't sell 'em, Sue 'Em

Mikey47 says:

Ok, this is one thing I will never understand, this implies that HTC knowingly and willfully violated the patent. They basically said screw it, we're going with this functionality even though Nokia has it patented. If it was unintentionally violated then how can that mean that you are not allowed to sell ANY of your devices.

I also don't understand why these can't be a ban until software is updated to remove the offending technology.

These types of patents definitely stifle, rather than promote, innovation.

Posted via Android Central App

Its up to the companies and court to decide if it was within HTC's scope of power to find if Nokia (or anyone else) had a patent on the technology they were using. If its found that HTC could have reasonably known that the software they were using was infringing, than the suit can still go through whether they technically "intended" to violate the patent or not.

And of course HTC can appeal this decision, and while that process goes on the devices are likely to not be pulled from shelves or halt sales. Surely the promise of a software update to remove the functionality could be taken as a fix to the suit as well.

Nreeldeep says:

HTC probably can't even afford to appeal.

just adopt Apples methods if possible seeing as they have a license to use them.

I know for a fact that Apple have a peer to peer NFC patent.

Is it a patent on the specific handshake used - or just the *idea* of using bluetooth or NFC to transfer files?

Because if it's just the idea, what's the difference between 'beaming' files over NFC or over IR like old Palm Pilots did? Does every new technology enable a new set of patents just for being the first to move an existing process from an older technology to the newer one (i.e. 'on a phone' vs 'on a computer)?

Bluetooth and NFC may be worthy of patents. Simply *using* them is not. Why can't patent offices get that through their thick skulls?

thatguy97 says:

Well that's ONE big pain....no?

Sent from my Nexus 7 2013 or Moto G

dumbcow1 says:

Wow. Nokia....you messed up by doing an Apple. You just sank to the bottom of my list.

Posted via Android Central App

drokssilva says:

You mean 2nd to last

Apple is last.

Posted via my defective Nexus 7(2013)

kalo88 says:

If you made something you wouldn't want others using it for free without you agreeing... So why should Nokia.

Companies are forever taking others to court over thigs... that's just how it is. HTC did a few naughty things with their boomsound technology that turned out to be pinched from Nokia too.

Nexus6beta says:

Does that mean the stores are not allowed to sell HTC Android devices starting today? At least until they pay Nokia a large sum of money?

Via my Exynos-5 powered Nexus6

someguy01234 says:

Yes and yes. In Germany for now, no doubt Microsoft wants Nokia to pursue the ruling in other countries as well.

Mmm not really. This ban obviously doesn't go into effect immediately. HTC has a chance to submit an appeal and if it is deemed at all likely to be successful, the ban will be postponed until that appeal process.

TheDu9du says:

Seems like Germany always favors all ban suits too easy.

way2broke says:

So I wonder if I will ever get to buy or use a HTC M8( HTC ONE v2). I really hope they don't go the way of Blackberry.... I've been with HTC since the apache and ppc6800...( Mogul) pocket pc. I was stoked about updating it to Windows 6.1... Haha. I miss Altell. Hope HTC makes it out of this hole . I guess my next phone may be Motorola??? Happy New Year's to all.

Posted via Android Central App

I honestly dont see how this patent fits any new phones. Its extremely vague in what it covers. Hell if Nokia had balls they could say they have a patent on the internet using this server if it wasnt for the fact its prior art in this case.

Here it is: http://www.google.com.mx/patents/EP1148681A2?cl=en

Bluetooth was developed for the sole purpose of transmitting data. How can anyone get a patent on top of that?

PalmLives says:

Where is the moderator....what's with all the foul language?

return_0 says:

Pretty sure the comments section has more lax rules than the forums. Also, I'm not sure if moderators have power in the comments sections.

NoNexus says:

Which is a shame. I hope the new filters cover swearing.

-----------------------------------------
sent from my DROID Eris, made by Nokia, powered by iOS 7 via BBM

Revrant says:

I'm confused, you can patent the transfer of data but not patent the device used to do it?

abtxpress says:

What a crap shoot for Nokia. I understand the need to have patents and protect them. But I don't agree on not licensing the patent.

Posted via Android Central App

lol,its amusing to see that the folks in wpcentral are like "Go Nokia.you Rock!!!!" and on AC everyone is "Poor HTC.F*ck Nokia":-)

Posted via Android Central App from Nexus 7 2013

xlDeMoNiClx says:

Of course they are, they're jealous of us. :P

Posted via Android Central App

Mikey47 says:

Well Apple has shown to perfect the "if you can't win in the marketplace, pursue in the court system", Not surprised to see Nokia (cough, cough, Microsoft ) doing the same.

Android is slaughtering iOS and WP.

Posted via Android Central App

drokssilva says:

@Mikey47
Well yes and no. Windows Phone is growing faster then any other operating system. iOS is above android in the us.

Posted via my defective Nexus 7(2013)

Scumbag Nokia

Posted via Android Central App

drokssilva says:

Oh come on. This isn't an unwarranted lawsuit.

Posted via my defective Nexus 7(2013)

tone84 says:

Love Nokia.. best camera phones on the market

Posted via Android Central App

drokssilva says:

Couldn't agree more. To bad Microsoft is buying them.

Posted via my defective Nexus 7(2013)

badkitties says:

had Nokia embraced the Android OS, it could have been the world's biggest phone maker right
now. Instead, it allowed itself to be prostituted to Microsoft for money.

How many people are buying Windows phones? Not that many. Even less in the near future.

Paola1993 says:

Actually, Windows Phone is growing like any other platform. Of course, right now it doesn't mean much but it will eventually. Windows Phone is stronger then the iPhone on Spain, France and Latin America. I live in Colombia and I see many of them (Not as many Androids obviously). Underestimate might not be the smarter move. However, this move is pathetic and not what we would expect from Nokia.

Posted via Android Central App

HalizDad says:

Goodbye any future Nokia phobesy

Posted via Android Central App

kasperkyd says:

I've been thinking to buy Nokia but not anymore, I hate those who wants to hit the market by banning other brands..

Posted via Android Central App

plunder says:

It is depressing to see Nokia acting like this.

Awesome A C

Paola1993 says:

Question: I thought Samsung had this feature too? I've seen it in their commercials. Maybe it's not the same thing, I may be mistaking.

Posted via Android Central App

ltjordan24 says:

Damn. I hope that HTC is able to work out a licensing agreement soon.

s2weden2000 says:

that's life in the big city...

Hmmm now Nokia has a place it can sell phones.

Posted via Android Central App

Ry says:

If Motorola licenses this patent from Nokia, doesn't it hurt Google's attempts to invalidate it?

Posted via Android Central App

Nokia, Apple, and Microsoft are sore losers. If you can't innovate, eradicate.

Posted via Android Central App

Anyone know if HTC one prices have dropped and where to get a good deal. Think I might skip the nexus 5 and get a better camera on the HTC

Posted via Android Central App

I thought the Bluetooth protocol is an alliance how could Nokia have sole ownership of the patents

Posted via Android Central App

brajko says:

Samsung does not use NFC or BT file transfer for Android Beam. Samsung uses NFC to connect devices whilst Wi-Fi Direct is responsible for the data transfer and they call it S Beam. So I don't know if a case exists there at all?

Posted via Android Central App

Rolandh says:

Since Microsoft now own Nokia, what did you expect. Microsoft have basically taken their Scroogled campaign to a new level (unless this Ban on HTC selling devices in Germany also includes HTC Windows Phone Devices as well).