Nokia Lumia 1020

New owner, same problems

In case you haven't heard, Microsoft surprised very few people tonight when it announced that it would purchase all relevant mobile-related parts of and license patents from Nokia for about $7.17 billion (€5.44 billion). Much has already been said (and will continue to be said) about the specifics of the deal, but it's interesting to think about how this purchase will affect Google and the numerous manufacturers of Android handsets.

In terms of market share, Nokia absolutely dominates the Windows Phone. You can see it in commercials and advertising, from carriers to Microsoft itself, Nokia is the premier brand for Windows Phone. Though the scales are dramatically different, this is analogous to Google purchasing Samsung's mobile handset division (and probably Sony and LG on top of that). With one small purchase — Nokia will cost Microsoft less than it paid to acquire Skype — Microsoft has just taken for all intents and purposes the entire Windows Phone marketplace into its own hands again.

Although they are overwhelmingly focused on building Android devices, major manufacturers like Samsung and HTC have been dabbling in making Windows Phone handsets for the past couple of years. It made sense for these OEMs to diversify at least slightly to ensure that they didn't have every single egg in one basket when it came to operating systems.

With Microsoft's acquisition of Nokia's handset business, we have to think that these manufacturers are going to be done making Windows Phone hardware going forward, regardless of Microsoft claiming that it will continue to license the operating system. And in the end this means very little to the likes of Samsung, HTC and Huawei whose Windows Phone divisions hardly made a mark on their bottom lines. They're still just as much "all-in" on Android as they were before, but now there isn't any clear alternative operating system for them to choose.

From Google's point of view, the fight for the mobile marketplace is likely unchanged as well. Android activation numbers are steadily increasing, and in terms of worldwide market share consumers still heavily favor Google's mobile OS. Google and Microsoft are clearly not the best of friends when it comes to making deals around mobile, and we can expect to see more of the same with Microsoft at the helm of Nokia.

Going forward, every player in the Android space will keep close eye on Microsoft as it begins to integrate Nokia's handset business into its mobile strategy. It may not mean much now due to the plain fact of Windows Phone's weak market share, but Microsoft controlling the entire hardware and software development for all Windows Phone devices going forward could be a strategy that keeps other companies on their toes.

Source: Microsoft; More: WPcentral


Reader comments

What Microsoft buying Nokia means for Android


Who cares! Nokia killed there selves when they decided to only make windows phones!

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I think Nokia threw in the towel when they decided to make Windows only phone. As successful as they were in the Windows phone market, the fact that Windows was a minority player generally meant also the Nokia were. This acquisition has been a way to get out while they can and avoid drowning as they would likely to have done.

From what I know, Nokia had internal discussions about taking Android as an option next year and once MS learned this they had to stop these plans.

Nokia was better off with this deal. They can concentrate on their strengths and start from a clean table (even with devices if need be).

MS however, shot itself in the leg (Lumia is not well known). I understand they had to do it now, but it was way too early. Without Nokia's brand they will not succeed (it's not enough to have Nokia's name only).

I very much now hope Google will invest in developing Android for desktops and laptops, plus some add-ons for Android for TV set-top boxes, single sign-in, one account across all devices, good synch'ing across devices and Microsoft is DEADmeat.

They killed themselves when they couldn't keep up with iPhone and Android.

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BYOD is causing problems for business.. Andriod and the Enterprise are not that friendly and 95% of companies use Windows Servers with Active Directory Credentials to policy settings ... by TOTAL Operating system counts Windows 8 is actually as popular as Andriod overall if you include ALL PC/Tablet/Phone/Mac now Microsoft can add phones to it's software licences..

In the next few years this will happen:

Andrioid will be like Linux (too many versions and driven by IT enthusiasts)

iOS / OSX will be like Mac at start of 21st century, expensive with a small group of die hard fans

Windows using it's business connections will replace all the current aging fleet of Blackberry server software and BOOM - we now are stuck with Microsoft as dominate player...

As for Play Store - due to the 1000's of Andriod configs already available making apps for Andrioid is alrady a major headache that will only keep getting woerse

The FUTURE is NIX. NT kernel is slow and MS WOS is slower each new version.

MS WOS choice sank Nokia that was 1st phone and smartphone - Symbian and Maemo - world seller and Android, at least some models with it even the same hardware phones with different OSs would have been a better business. The Nokia shareholders sank their shares the day tehy married MS

MS WOS XP is still 30% of desktop computers OSs and they will migrate to GNU/Linux - in a great share - because MS cannot make a good modern OS for this machines.

MS WOS 8 has 3 versions plus RT, amd MS WOS 7 has 6.

GNU/Linux has 3 main distros deb ones Debian and Ubuntu, rpm ones, Red Hat, Fedora Suse, source ones Arch Manjaro, Gentoo, Funtoo Sabayon. But Ubuntus has more or less the 50% of the desktop market. And the actual 2% in GNU/Linux desktop is the picky one that do not run pre installed OSs.

Almost 99% of the programs work in a native way at any of them.

Fragmentation is freedom to choose, how many different kind of MS WOS machines are out there?, almost infinite combinations of hardware, 4 MS WOS versions vs Ubuntu + Xubuntu + Kubuntu + Lubuntu is what the main market would see and Ubuntu is ONE distro where you can install almost any DM together XFCE+LMDE+KDE+Unity can be installed at the same machine without any problem.

Seriously, you're considering RedHat and Suse the same as each other but Windows 8 and Windows 8 Pro different from each other?

You misread or misunderstood his comment. He didn't say anything about RT.

His comment was spot on - you simply can't consider RedHat and Suse to be effectually the same OS at the same time you claim Windows 8 and Windows 8 Pro to be entirely different. Windows 8 Pro is nothing more than Windows 8 with a few extra security, networking and management features.

that is ABSOLUTELY wrong. All Windows Store apps available for RT run on Windows 8 unless the developer makes the deliberate decision not to do so.

MS kicked their own ass when they shirked their back catalog for the win 8 modus. the least they could have done was made some sort of emulator to work with the old stuff. Starting from scratch with such an uphill climb was not the most savvy choice.

I agree with Miguel, except for the count of OS' subversions. You should count SPs too, no? (remember Win 95 OSR 2 not compatible with OSR 1...)

It's true MS Winbdaube is slower and dirtier with each version. The truth is even that Vista (2007, 2 SPs) was a failure, that 7 (Seven, 2009, at least 1 SP) smells like a failure too and is an horrible pece of crapware (a new security model? mockup!), and that 8 (2012) is a failure. Commercial, technical, user-friendliness, efficiency, and company adoption failures.

Where do you even get your stats? Windows 8 has been a total flop. PC sales had taken a nose dive thanks to Windows. Windows phone 8 however has no apps. And the people selling the phones use either ios or android so they aren't recommending windows phone. Windows tablets? The windows rt is an even bigger flop. The fire sale had already started by lowering the price by 150 dollars. And Windows rt is a while separate os that no one is developing for. If you count tablets and phones in operating system sales then Microsoft is no longer number one. Didn't you read the headlines? This was big news last month.

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On top of all that I have yet to see a demand for Windows Mobile developers... 99% of the listing I see on a daily basis are for Android and iOS. Windows Mobile is going the way of the Blackberry 100% irrelevance. The only users of WOS are the diehard fan boys...

actually, you are flat out wrong.if you pay attention to wpc,they published an article about the %age of windows os. while xp has basically stayed at the same %age, WIN8 has overtaken vista in terms of active users. don't write about stuff you don't know. btw, go to a att store and find a demo nokia windows phone. then go to the app store and tell me what you see. i think you will be surprised at what you find ;)

posted via Eyeopenr

the fun part is MS pushing its Surface tablet on TV ads "with a pluggable keyboard and an USB slot" while my Asus eeePad Transformer TF101 has been around since years. And its keyboard offers extended autonomy (16 hours), a SD slot, 3 USB slots ... the only thing missing to make it a true PC is an Ethernet cableplug.

MS is a follower, and is dishonest since the 90s

I remember someone saying MS did not even once invent itself a piece of software it sells. I reckon this is true. Even BASIC and DOS were bought.

Historically I had windows mobile phone (6.5) and my wife had a blackberry. They were horrible to set-up and use with outlook exchange servers at our respective workplaces. We are both now on android and have a much easier time at maintaing a working set-up with much better mail clients (HTML in your email anyone?).
I even got my android phone working with Lotus notes by setting up a Gmail in-between account and lotus rules. Most of the time my emails get to my phone before my Lotus desktop client refreshes.

You clearly don't understand the current mobile landscape...

Android is becoming less "fragmented", not more, especially since taking back control of updates to major parts of the OS from the carriers/manufacturers. I really wish this fragmentation myth would go away. There are currently more versions of Windows in common use than Android. Does that mean Windows is grossly fragmented? Updates come with software development, Google's dev cycle is just faster than most. The biggest bottlenecks are the manufacturers & carriers, and again, Google is steady taking that control away from them.

How in the world can you count PC numbers in a discussion that is clearly focused on the mobile market?

Both Android and iOS work pretty seamlessly with Active Directory. Group policies work great along side of Android as well, you can require pin locks, remote wipe, etc, etc.

I've developed a few Android apps. Development has literally gotten better by the month. The biggest problem initially was lack of great documentation, far more so than compatibility between different versions. "Fragmentation" isn't an issue if you know what you are doing. Google even has a compatibility library that brings most of the modern features to older devices with little to no code changes if you use it from the beginning.

When someone begins a response with the lines : "You clearly don't understand the mobile landscape", It tell me that the person saying this is the one that don't and a way to convince people he is "expert", opens with a line as such. I don't buy into it. If I am wrong, what are your credentials qualifying you as a person that understands the mobile landscape? I am sure we all would like to know. No one needs to understand the "mobile landscape" to have an opinion.

While you're working on that,

I would not have touched Nokia with a 10 foot pole and let it die on its own. What I would like to see is Android or Windows to come in and take over Blackberry and totally remove Rim. I am sure that Blackberry lovers would enjoy a new operating system to continue to use their Blackberries. My belief is that if this were to ever occur, iPhone will have a run for its money.

I think the big "purchase" here was a TON of patents...
Yeah, they ARE getting a hardware company of a partner who has sold a lot of Windows Phones, but they are getting tons of patents to be used to extort money out of Google and Apple down the road...
(just watch...)

That could happen, but I think MS will find that's not too profitable a path to take as they'll end up getting clubbed over the head with patents other companies hold as well. By buying Nokia, Windows smooths their production chain, can consolidate profits and can make sure that they get the phones they want into consumers' hands.

That doesn't mean it will be successful though, with less than 4% of the market and nothing that really distinguishes it about Apple or Android, MS is fighting an uphill battle.

Are you sure they're getting "a TON of patents?"

All MS bought was the "devices and services" unit of Nokia. They did not buy the maps (HERE), network infrastructure (NSN), or licensing and development (Advanced Technologies) units. Seems to me, that last unit would be where all the patents lie. I'm sure they've got some patent licensing deal with the phone unit, but I'm not convinced they'll be in charge of those patents.

"Nokia will retain its patent portfolio and will grant Microsoft a 10-year license to its patents at the time of the closing. Microsoft will grant Nokia reciprocal rights to use Microsoft patents in its HERE services. In addition, Nokia will grant Microsoft an option to extend this mutual patent agreement in perpetuity.

In addition, Microsoft will become a strategic licensee of the HERE platform, and will separately pay Nokia for a four-year license."

Reference link:

It's interesting that you began your comment with saying that the previous poster's use of "You clearly..." shows that he doesn't understand the mobile market, when reading the second part of your post shows a pretty serious lack of business sense.

Why would Google/MS buy RIM? The first rule of business is "What's in it for me?" So Google/MS can continue to develop a failing operating system on their own dime? That's just bad business. To get a hardware manufacturer? They both already own one. So the software would be scrapped, the hardware production isn't needed, the only reason either of those companies (and we can toss Apple in there as well) would buy RIM, is to get their patents. That's a lot of money to spend to get a patent portfolio. You talk about Nokia as if it's beyond dead, more like toxic. Meanwhile you espouse buying a company that's in even more trouble that does nothing for either purchaser? It's a good thing none of these companies are taking business advice from you.

Based on the comments made in this thread, I'd say laxidaisical has a much better grasp of the mobile market than you or the prior poster.

Hey Brendilon, you said that both Microsoft and Google own a hardware manufacturer. Actually not. Google sold Motorola to Lenovo. And I know this comment was way before than that happened. So no hard feelings.

"I am sure that Blackberry lovers would enjoy a new operating system to continue to use their Blackberries."

They's called BB10.

you mean the 8 users of RIM devices left on the planet? Every server malfunction, and underwhelming OS update BB has pushes more and more people into better options. With androids hard push into the business sector, they will decimate iOS' form over function and tiny incremental upgrades until the only apple users will be those people who still don't care about how much money mom is paying to keep them in the newest phone.

make that 9 (OS 7.1 9790, for what it's worth). But I seriously doubt I will be getting another.
BTW Blackberry was always my main Email+Business-things device while I had my hax07'd Android in one pocket and trusty old Sony Ericsson W995 as my "phone"-phone.

Oh how the times they are a changin.

When someone begins a response with the lines : "You clearly don't understand the mobile landscape", It tells me that the person saying this is the one that don't and a way to convince people he is "expert", opens with a line as such. I don't buy into it. If I am wrong, what are your credentials qualifying you as a person that understands the mobile landscape? I am sure we all would like to know. No one needs to understand the "mobile landscape" to have an opinion.

While you're working on that,

I would not have touched Nokia with a 10 foot pole and let it die on its own. What I would like to see is Android or Windows to come in and take over Blackberry and totally remove Rim. I am sure that Blackberry lovers would enjoy a new operating system to continue to use their Blackberries. My belief is that if this were to ever occur, iPhone will have a run for its money.

This is a very clueless comment. You, yourself, should learn more about business, in general, before judging the comments and observations of others.

Posted from my phone, using your girlfriend's Internet, while you're at work.

I don't think they're too worried. Even as a Windows desktop diehard, I'll freely acknowledge that W8 is garbage. People don't want to have to completely relearn how to use their OS, especially when it becomes less intuitive. I'm the office testcase for whether to switch to W8 for all our systems and 6 months later, I STILL want to throw the whole thing out a window on a daily basis. Microsoft is effectively pushing people to Apple, which makes me absolutely nauseous.

So, you want to throw Windows 8 out of a window lol

Posted from my phone, using your girlfriend's Internet, while you're at work.

They don't need to have "enterprise business" because that business is evaporating due to a shift towards BYOD.

You have something against "poor" people?

Posted from my phone, using your girlfriend's Internet, while you're at work.

Well, I hope this deal is only buying off Nokia's phone business as it relates to windows phones, because I still believe in the symbian OS, I want to imagine how competitive and reliable the symbian OS(Nokia Belle) would have become if Nokia had not abandoned it. Please was anything wrong with embracing windows while still keeping a team to continue with symbian. cos since my Nokia E72 and c5, every other phone seemed to be going backward in terms of technology. We never needed the many cpu cores or ram to enjoy the values of a smartphone. feature keypads were the bomb, qwerty is slower and touch screen became the slowest. This deal would definitely help windows but Nokia please help yourself and bring out more symbians. then Symbian would be my phone and windows my tab.

They actually killed themselves long, long ago with their inability to develop a viable smart phone OS and ecosystem around or outside Symbian and later on by sticking to that same horrible thing Symbian, someone remember?
Actually betting on Windows Phone was the only viable option (and it also paid off in a sense because it made this sale possible) when they realized that they are in the position of a man standing on a burning oil rig with his only options being burn alive on that platform or jump into the see and try and swim (and drown or burn anyway, but maybe not)
This is just paraphrasing Nokia's own CEO from early 2011

Betting on WP devalued Nokia. The N9 was outselling the Lumia line 3:1, so Elop killed it. This was very likely Microsoft's long term plan--to acquire core Nokia assets at a firesale price. Elop never even sold his house in Redmond nor did his family move to Finland.

Going to have to go with " jnotary" comment. Killed themselves! With what, the best sales receipt they have had in a decade. Not to mention a solid phone. My lumia hasn't froze once. My last droid....... I reset daily not to mention it required a solar panel attached to my shirt just to keep it on. The camera is above par.......seriously, enough to appease the human eye and not look like your grandmothers handycam. Win is the market, its easy, smooth, compatible, clean......doesn't require an IT guy to use (I'm and IT guy). I enjoy working on the backbone of computing but not on my phone. If you want to make the apps argument, Android does have a googol (insert large number here) of apps but you have to admit they are mostly crap. Remakes of remakes and the like. I want my phone to be easy to read, easy to interface with at work or home and fit in my pocket. The phone is there. Win is there....jelly bean 8.507 is not. Have to remember Nokia started it all, and from what I read they didn't sell the patents, they are getting royalties......good thing I decided to make the switch and buy stock!

No hurt feelings just a rant bro.

Microsoft buy Nokia means nothing to Android. Unless Microsoft finds a way to take market share away from Android nothing changes. Samsung, HTC and others will make Windows Phones if there is money to be made. Google owns Motorola, but others continue to make phones because there is money to be made. If they are not making money it was likely that they were already jumping off the Windows Phone ship. It is now solely up to Microsoft to make a go of Windows Phone. Oh, there is one area that this may mean something to Android makers. The patents! If the patents Microsoft bought gives them more licencing opportunities then that would be another matter.

Personally, the patents is probably where the money is. It may be a relatively cheap acquisition, but what good is it, really, unless they actually make some money? Nokia got the better end of this deal in that the shareholders got some value and got out. I see this going the way of Palm, truthfully - once it stops making money, it will be dashed to the side and the patents will be too expensive to purchase.

This means a lot to android. Its the clearest sign yet (as if we needed one), that Microsoft intends to gain marketshare by taking it from Google. Nokia's current device lineup backs that up.

Intent doesn't mean anything when the Windows phone UI is worthless to a majority of users

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I believe the deal only included a license to any patents and not the patents themselves. In fact, MS doesn't even get the rights to the Nokia name. Just a license to use it on existing phone lines. As the actual ownership of the patents now moves further away from MS's influence, we may see some rational thought from Nokia instead of the current attempts at Android busting.

I miss Windows Mobile 5. Windows mobile 6, not so much. RIP Palm Treo. Windows phone is too simple, has not maany apps, gimmicky features, looks bad like Windows 8, and not enough customization abilities

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I Agree, my Windows 8 installed without a hitch, it can be mastered in about 20 minutes, it's much faster than windows 7, I have a touchscreen but prefer to use a mouse for most of what I do.

I cannot agree more. Windows 8 and the following releases are great to use. Fast, great multitasking, etc stuff. Just too good.

I have an iPhone and an Android and I'm just waiting to understand the Microsoft position in the market to buy a windows phone (I have a surface pro, and for enterprise there aren't an android or ipad better than the surface).

I guess there goes any hope of someday seeing an Android made by Nokia. What a shame. That probably would have been the greatest Android ever. R.I.P Nokia.

Posted via Nexus 7 (2013)

It would have been awesome to have Nokia make an Android phone. But, I knew that would never happen, due to the fact that pre-merger, Nokia was receiving a lot of money from Microsoft.

You know, I was thinking (hoping) just this past weekend that Nokia might try and release an Android phone this fall/next year. I guess seeing all of those WP commercials and product placements made me think that.

Oh well, I guess my daughter will get my N4 so I can get the upcoming N5!

Hey BlackBerry, did you read this? Companies that have been using Windows Phone software might be looking for another software alternative other than Android after this move. Ready to license BB10 now?

Speaking as a home Ubuntu user, I don't think anyone will care. Ubuntu has about as much mental cache as Symbian, the average user doesn't have a clue what it is and won't be interested because of the dearth of apps.

There will be another Finnish phone manufacturer, Jolla ( ), which is having it's first phone ready to the market at the end of this year. It is based on Nokia's Meego (and that company is handled by the previous Nokia Meego team). Meego has been modified so that it will be using apps made for Android. So when it is launched, it has lot's of apps available on day one.

Problem with this theory is, businesses are starting to move BB users to WP. So why anyone would want to jump on a sinking ship anyway? There are several European markets where WP now have 8+ share and if MS can keep the momentum Nokia was building up, I guess things can only get more interesting.

Moving to Windows Phone? Where are you getting that information? My company and many of my colleges companies are moving to a BOD(Bring Your Own Device) model. And they use a 3rd party app like Touchdown for security and exchange compatibility. So the type of phone you have really won't matter as far as the company is concerned as long as everyone has Touchdown installed.

Bingo. People are too partial to their own devices. If I own a company, why would I buy all my employees a $700 phone every two years, when they all have their own preferences and will use their own devices anyhow?

Does this mean we'll NEVER see a Nokia Android phone?

That is sad new indeed. :D

On second thought, nobody I know owns a Windows phone(any version, past or present).

Most people I know use Android phones. The rest all use iPhones. One does still use BB. Zero Windows phone user.

Failure to mention relative market share makes it seem that Windows phones are important. They are not. Some may like them but they do not sell.
Its just the Zune again. Forget about it.

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They sell enough to be third. They're also clearly gunning for both the high and low end, which is where Android has been thriving.

Don't be mistaken: Microsoft is coming for Android, and this proves they're going to spend what it takes to do it.

They are taking market share. A year ago they sold a fifth as many phones as there were iOS phone sales, this year its a third, with a 70% year on year gain. not actually that bad for a 3 year old platform.

Then Nokia shareholders are stupid . Why sell when things are going better and better?

The Nokia-MS deal was a total mistake for Nokia

If they would have made multi OS phones as Samsung makes MS WOS phones would have not sunk their best seller brand.

Nowadays market share is not even that important. What matters about the deal is that it will give MS patent trolling powers it didn't have before. Not only that but they will also manage to bring to the ground the Finish company with them.

If only Nokia would just build for android at least when ice cream sandwich was released... They could've turned their business around. Shame.

You fools... MS intends to take Apple's Market share. Google is a secondary target that will pretty much work itself out by the time MS is done putting the iPhone to sleep.

I want Microsoft to do good. But, it's a pipe dream to say that they will eat Apple for lunch, at this point. And, with Android activation numbers on the increase, I don't see Google being a target at all, either.

Its hilarious to think that Microsoft is trying to take market share from specific companies or device makers. They just want market share, they don't care where it comes from. Once they have enough users to matter in the grand scheme of things, then they can pick out specific targets.

Except this purchase contradicts that.

By buying Nokia they get access to two things:

-An in-house smartphone manufacturer to tackle mature markets, and markets where Android has a strong foothold.

-A manufacturer with an extensive portfolio (and experience) making budget smartphones and dumbphones for emerging markets.

With those two things taken into consideration, its pretty clear they're targeting Android marketshare, and emerging market marketshare.

You are correct sir.

Very simple, go on Bing or Google (I don't discriminate ;)) and search up the latest news about Nokia and market share, they ALL talk about the low end market and the new smartphone users coming from feature phones switching to the low end Lumias.

Of course they are targeting Android with this lol Android rules in the low end market BY FAR. So hello... imagine Nokia sold 50 million+ asha phones this second quarter itself.. Microsoft would love to create a path where all those 50 million consumers buy into the Lumia line. So yes Andrew I believe Android is being targeted here more so than iOS.

To some degree, but with Apple cheapening its brand, they put themselves in the firing line to.

Considering that the market share numbers for 2Q13 v. 2Q12 show:
Android +10.2% (to 79.3%)
iOS -3.4% (to 13.3%)
WOS +0.6% (to 3.7%)

I'm going to say that Google isn't too concerned. If anyone is looking vulnerable, it's Apple. If I'm a businessman, i go after the vulnerable markets/companies, not the strong ones, especially when you've got 1/20th the marketshare of the big, strong guy.

My point is... The Android game is a complex one that MS will have to play carefully. On the other hand though, are a bunch of iPhone users that have been using the same stagnant OS for ages. the iPhone's tech changes just aren't keeping pace with anyone these days.

Looking at the coming 5s I'm just like 'meh'. The Samsung Galaxy Series and the Nokia 9xx and above are superior in just about every measurable category.

So yeah if MS is smart... Before they go and lose those iPhone users over to Android... They are most certainly targeting Apple's market share. It's completely ripe for the picking.

WinPho=windows=xbox=world domination.

A sale for any product is not yet further backed up by inevitably tighter integration.

Not to mention that licensing royalties for MS surely just skyrocketed. Apple, Samsung, etc. all use some piece of tech developed by Nokia way back when.


MS had to do this to remain relevant and ongoing. If nokia decided to dump windows phone and move over to Android or just failed, where would that have left MS? Nowhere. Noone with any significant presence would have been making tbeir phones. I think MS saw the writing on the wall that they could easily die a very quick death if nokia dumped them, so why not make sure you will have a hardware manufacturer! Way to grasp at straws MS. Face it, you are as irrelevant as BB in the mobile space. Maybe they can get a two for one special on the sinking ship cruise.

Posted via Android Central App on my white Nexus 4

Microsoft isn't after Apple. They are after Google. This is a statement to them. The next big move in the industry will be one of two things. Either Samsung, HTC or someone like that will license BlackBerrys OS or Google will buy them. I would lean more towards the licensing though. I'm not sure BlackBerry can be bought.

I hope this works out for Microsoft. I don't use Windows Phones, but I don't want the platform to die either. Here's to hoping that it's a good gamble. Competition is always good, and I don't want the mobile space to be a two-horse race.

Competition is definitely good but at this point it is decidedly a two horse race, as the barriers to entry for a new OS to make significant waves is extremely high if not impossible. Apple's and Google's numbers are just to high for anyone to really penetrate with any real significance. It would take a brand new, highly innovative OS, something really fresh and ground breaking, like Apple's first iphone, to really create a change from either apple or google.

Posted via Android Central App on my white Nexus 4

I think where the more immediate impact will be seen is in markets other than the US. Android and Apple have very strong footholds here, but in emerging markets, Apple has little power, and the negative stigma that still surrounds Microsoft isn't nearly as strong. Nokia has some really solid lower end phones that are selling really well in a lot of emerging markets. I have a feeling that the impact of these lower end Lumia devices will be greater in those areas. The growth in the US will continue at a slow pace, but that slow growth will be offset by catching the overseas markets. As of right now, I think the greatest impact is probably going to be felt by Blackberry. I think this kind of deal in addition to the efforts that Microsoft is making to gain more enterprise customers, will really stick it to Blackberry in both the emerging markets, where they've had a pretty good foothold, and the business customers who are looking to get away from the BES setup.

I tend to agree. US smartphone penetration is mature mostly, and it is the rest of the world where the real growth numbers will come from for these companies.

Posted via Android Central App on my white Nexus 4

Considering they all make money, with the exception of Motorola, yeah I would say it is working out fine for android oems

Posted via Android Central App

This is a very interesting move, but I don't see it threatening Android just yet. And why would MS want to threaten Android? They make more money from Android than WP anyway!

I love Android but I still have a soft spot for Nokia dumbphones. What does this mean for the upcoming Nokia 515? What will happen for Series 40 and Symbian OSes? Will MS kill them to serve us Windows Phone 8 exclusively?

Yeah man Symbian has been long gone dude lol

As for the Asha phones, well I just read Nokia sold over 50 million this second quarter. So According to a couple news sites I just read, Microsoft will be looking to create a path where they could sell nokia windows phones to all these consumers.

Of course no one knows yet how they plan on putting windows phone OS into such low end phones but seeing as how the WP OS runs smooth on single core and 256MB ram, maybe they'll have a special OS for feature phones.. WP OS Lite? idk lol just guessing here.

Is that so? What's their marketshare? Symbian's dropped over the last year from 4.2% to .2% and they're the smallest listed OS before "Others" which is listed as 0.0% (not zero, but statistically insignificant).

Windows phone still has no custom SMS/email tones. Poor app selection. I'm glad I trash my 920. They're only a threat to BlackBerry.

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Yawn. Typical M$. They won't ever touch Android. Windows 8 sucks. Rt sucks mobile sucks. Hardware they make sucks and is over priced. Surface pro was cool. However the same price could get you a ultrabook that's better. People get tablets they Dont want something that big. They want a thin and light tablet or they just get a ultrabook. Everything M$ makes is big and bulky and in cell phones if they have any say in how Nokia phones are made bring on 1/2" thick phones with crap battery life.

M$ is a sinking ship. People hate windows now the surface rt and pro was pretty much a virtual boy. My guess is they bought Nokia for the upcomeing Xbox one hard core flop that the system will do. Just watching the changes in that you can tell they are desperate and maybe this was a move to try and get something to offset the huge fail that is coming up. Maybe they wanna turn Nokia into something like apple. Make one phone for windows mobile and do it will. But it will just get hit even harder then apple. I mean android has apple against the ropes. They went from high end to crap. Now they have to make cheap iPhone 5c's just to keep a foothold in the market.

I wish M$ luck I mean they need it. They need something that will sell. Let's see if the Xbox one has issues like I think it will and be another 360.

" I mean android has apple against the ropes. They went from high end to crap. Now they have to make cheap iPhone 5c's just to keep a foothold in the market."
Has Apple against the ropes? You do realize that iPhone is gaining U.S. marketshare, while Android is not gaining, don't you? You probably have never owned an iPhone, either.

And this claim is based on... what exactly? The latest numbers I've seen from May show iOS gainin .3% of US market share, while Android gained .7%. While I wouldn't say Android has Apple on the ropes (not in the US at least, globablly Apple is up a creek right now), Android is certainly still gaining market share.

The global market is a lot larger than the US market, and Android has 79.2% of the global market to iOS's 13.3%.

What does this mean for Android (and it's OEMs and even Apple)? The same thing Google buying Motorola meant for Windows and iOS.


Google bought Motorola a secondary player in the Android game. Microsoft buying the Nokia handset division is equivalent to if Google had bought Samsung's handset division. Much bigger deal.

Microsoft has already shown preferential treatment to Nokia so I imaging this has Samsung and HTC petty nervous and they may choose to go all in on Android or choose a better secondary OS like BB10 (who coincidentally announced last week that they were getting serious about growing their platform and exploring strategic partnerships).

I think it goes without saying at this point that a Nokia Android device isn't ever gonna happen so that crowd can settle down.

Microsoft already makes more money with their services on Android and iOS than Windows Phone so I can't see them pulling their services from those platforms, in house hardware division or no.

Erlop will head the Nokia division for 6 months or so to smooth over the transition and then it will be announced that he's been selected to succeed Balmer in the top spot (reward for tunning Nokia into the ground allowing them to be bought at such a bargain ).

Posted via Android Central App on my daily driver the DROID MAX

"Google bought Motorola a secondary player in the Android game. Microsoft buying the Nokia handset division is equivalent to if Google had bought Samsung's handset division. Much bigger deal."

Yeah... not really. Sansung is the #2 smartphone maker i the world. Motorola is #4. Nokia is somewhere around #8 or 9. While they may make almost all the phones for Microsoft, their market share, and value is pretty insignificant in the grand scheme. Remember, MS spent more on Skype than on Nokia.

Motorola was an aging brand that will & has been rejuvenated. Nokia was an aging brand that killed itself by getting solely into bed with microsoft..

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Microsoft buying Nokia:

1.Puts a [stop sign] to all crazy rumors that Nokia might get to taste android. End of discussion and trolling
2.Microsoft now free to extend its "exclusivity deal contract" to anyone whos ready to accept the offer [HTC,DELL,Lenovo,Micromax,Samsung,LG etc] they will have everything what Nokia had and more for their growth in Ecosystem.

The game is clear...
Not competing with android
Not competing with iOS
just grow the market share on its own, acquiring the displeased people from android and iOS

Sorry but with current world wide activations of android os increasing daily and the quality hardware of apple products.. that would have to be some serious displeasure..

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There is. WP8 has 1/3 of the market share of iOS. Think about it, its actually quite a lot and growing much much faster.

According to the most recent numbers from the IDC Windows has 3.7% market share, while iOS is at 13.2%. This means Windows has 28% of the market share that iOS does.

So you're both wrong, Windows has about 1/4 the market share that iOS does.

"In terms of market share, Nokia absolutely dominates the Windows Phone."

In other words, they have almost absolute market share of something that has no market share.


Having grown up with microsofts software dominance over every laptop and pc its good to see the tides turn against them..

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Microsoft make more money out of Android than they do out of WP.

So you can expect a flurry of new licensing deals or lawsuits based on the patents they've acquired from Nokia.

Well they have to make up the shortfall from declining Windows sales somehow.

As much as I would have loved to see what Nokia could have done with Android, hardware speaking, Nokia's fate was sealed when Mr. Schmidt refused to buy Nokia's loyalty. Go with Windows Phone, or cease to exist.

Nokia dead? WinPhone irrelevent? Really? Elop did a great job. I'm sad to see Nokia's handset division being bought out, BUT ... they are carving out a pretty big niche, which will likely keep on growing, most probably at Android's expense. Nokia were going down the tube when Elop joined, now the handsets have been sold, the R&D and patent legacy has been kept, and don't forget, Nokia is much, much more than handsets. NSN has been turned around, the JV is now solely in Nokia hands and has a great future and the handset division is safe as it could be in the hands of Microsoft. Sounds like a good job all around to me under the circumstances. I think Elop has done himself no disfavours in heading to the top spot at Microsoft with his job here.

Your logic doesn't really fit with the facts. From 2Q12 to 2Q13, Windows went from 3.1% market share, to 3.7%. That's hardly what I would call big movement. Android on the other hand went from 69.1% to 79.3%.

Symbian went from 4.2% to 0.2%, Windows wasn't even able to capitalize on one quarter of the loss from Nokia's own OS.

For about 12 years I used Nokia phones. After 3 years on Android it would take a lot to tempt me back. I dislike the smell of Microsoft. They have been selfish, ugly and grotesquely mismanaged for ages. Now THEY own Nokia! I'm not surprised; but NOKIA now require a SERIOUS deodorant to overcome the social stigma.

One small chance - if Elop becomes CEO of Microsoft; he might be able to fix it. What are the chances of that?

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The Premier windows phone developer. Is that like being leader of the flat earth society.

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Saw this coming when Stephen Elop came to Nokia 3years and lost my interest in Nokia since. Was a fan before with their N900, excellent device even though wasn't successful.

Elop should be sentenced to execution by Finnish courts on basis of selling out Finland's best to crummy Microsoft.
Maybe even throw in there some insider charges or even terrorism ones.

I'll take a Windows phone over my Android. The Microsoft team just needs to throw one into the market that will stick to the confidence of consumers. And I think they are capable of competing for a long time.


I will never buy an iPhone.

So does this push other handset manufacturers in to the arms of OS's like Firefox and Ubuntu? Google's acquisition of Moto must have had Samsung and HTC looking over their shoulders and seeking an opportunity to diversify. Telefonica is putting it's substantial wait behind FirefoxOS so maybe this is a real opportunity for Mozilla...?

We are entering the BYOD age so if company is run by Microsoft software (not only Windows) guess what hardware will integrate the best? Microsoft is going big time for the mobile workforce and they will also provide the tools. If you want your employees to access your business network from their own devices you give them Nokia mobile from Microsoft. That will just close the loop in MS ecosystem.

Android and Apple support Activesync and are capable of syncing email, calendar, and contacts just as well as WP. There's no advantage of one platform over the other in that one respect, that I know of. However, BYOD means supporting what your employees have, which is Android and iOS almost exclusively--the two combine for >92% of smartphone marketshare worldwide. BYOD does not mean giving devices to them, that isn't cost effective anymore. In fact, it's the opposite--with the trend towards BYOD, the focus has shifted away from enterprise to the private consumer sector.

I work in the corporate office of a very large retailer that everyone has heard of. We have recently ditched all Microsoft products except for desktop Windows. Outlook and Exchange Server have been retired. We now use Gmail exclusively. Google Drive has also supplanted MS Office. It's awesome and makes having an Android phone even more enjoyable. Windows phone would make zero sense here. About half of my team uses Android and the other half iOS with one Blackberry holdout.

By signing this deal with Microsoft, Nokia has essentially signed their
own death warrant.

Now Nokia's mobile phone division will become a Microsoft division.
There is no turning back now.

The future of mobile phones belongs to Android and iOS.

Microsoft will probably pump another billion or two into Nokia after
the acquisition. If that doesn't help, maybe a couple more billion.
By then, Android and iOS will probably enjoy 95 percent of more
of the total mobile OS market.

Hypothetically, if Nokia reverses course, cut off ties with Microsoft
and produce Android smartphones, how many people will buy it?
I'm guessing a lot. I know I will prefer a Nokia Android smartphone
over a Samsung, Motorola, or HTC Android smartphone.

"Microsoft has just taken for all intents and purposes the entire Windows Phone marketplace into its own hands again."

Back into its own sweaty, clumsy, surfacy, meat-filled hands again...

Does this mean the rebirth of the Zune phone, or its second death?

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The phone business is commodity now. The real game is the cloud. Believe it or not, I think this means that Microsoft/Nokia is potentially a bigger threat than Apple. Apple's iCloud sucks, especially for business use. But Microsoft has some very good cloud-based tools and an execution environment of their own that rivals Google's.

Probably the biggest and coolest thing that happens when I get an Android anything is that as soon as I key in my GMail id, I get access to *everything*, Google+, Maps, Mail, Calendar, Drive, Music, Books, apps, photos, finance, you name it. Microsoft has Outlook, a very good maps competitor from Nokia, XBox/Zune stuff for social, music and gaming.

I'll bet that Microsoft is going to buy Barnes & Noble next year. After that, Google might have to come to some sort of gentlemen's agreement with Amazon to counter.

I bleed Android green, but believe me, this move worries me a bit. But it is also a good thing. Google needs the competition. Game on.

But, they do make a fine Thanksgiving meal, lol.

Posted from my phone, using your girlfriend's Internet, while you're at work.

I wonder if now that Google has Motorola and Microsoft has Nokia, I wonder if anyone is going to look at WebOS or Ubuntu as a market to get into.

Well HP sold what was left of WebOS to LG. What they are going to do with that is anyone's guess. Ubuntu is compelling but untried.

The Mobile space just got a whole lot interesting.

Did I miss something? Why did the author fail to make the obvious comparison between Microsoft/Nokia with Apple? Had I written this article, I would have questioned the ability of Microsoft to successfully manage the integration of hardware and software from two companies that could truly compete head on with Apple's miracle hardware/software products.

Was it a missed opportunity to say the obvious?

As a mere consumer, I love this phone and I will have it. The cameras on these Nokia phones are incredible. I currently have the Nokia 800 Pureview with the Symbian processor. Eventually, this phone will be mine. I think this an exciting partnership from my standpoint. iPhones and Androids may be great products, but I find them a little boring. And, the fact that I have had the iPhone, have the iPad, and both have cameras that aren't worth crap qualifies my decision on that matter. Even if these companies get on board and do something decent with their cameras, I'm done with them. I have too many grainy photos uploaded that I can barely even see to go back.

7 Billion was not much for Microsoft to throw away in the long run. They've wasted more money and got less bang for the buck! I just don't think they are going to be able to compete. The current ecosystem has already been established. Asking people who have app from Play store or iPhone app store apps to toss them and buy new ones from Microsoft (whatever store) just seems like a stretch. Also what incentive do developers have to develop for Windows phone? NADA!!

Are you talking about "Motorola" when you say "Samsung" in this sentence:
"this is analogous to Google purchasing Samsung's mobile handset division"?

No, he's referring to Samsung being the dominant Android OEM, just as Nokia is the dominant Windows Phone OEM.

He's saying Microsoft's purchase of Nokia WOULD BE synonymous with Google purchasing Samsung.

Posted from my phone, using your girlfriend's Internet, while you're at work.

I think there was pressure from the board and shareholders for Nokia to make Android phones which would have been a disaster for Microsoft and completely sink Windows phone. They had to buy it to keep it in the fold.

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nokia was great...i still use e71 what a phone...and have many others that still work..Luna, sirocco (gold,carbon and steel) i still remember the days when i could make calls and send a quick msg without even looking at the phone.
why symbian died? reply

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Because Stephen Elop, former Executive-VP of Microsoft-gone-CEO-of-Nokia-now-back-as-Microsoft-ExecutiveVP-running-for-CEO-of-Microsoft decided to destroy it.
Google "Burning platform" memo.

This is a good day for android. This opens up nokia to license out pureview to android phone manufacturers. so htc, Samsung , and google can now license and use the 41mp sensor in their phones.

NO . everything I have read states Microsoft only is licensing those patents. Nokia kept them. Its actually bad for Microsoft because the lumia line just lost its edge.

Nokia was the sole responsible for Windows Phone development. If it wasn't for Nokia, Windows Phone would be now dead and not in 3rd place.

That said, this move angered many Nokia/WP users. Myself included. I'm with Windows Phone for one reason: Nokia.
With Nokia gone and Microsoft's track record of slacking in terms of OS development (they release pathetic updates that improve basically nothing and have yet to attend to a single demand from their users...seriously, check Microsoft's Windows Phone UserVoice. There are features there that are demanded and still missing since Windows Phone 7!), I'll be jumping ship.
And Android is a strong candidate (I'm waiting to see the new Xperia that'll be announced tomorrow). So Google shouldn't be that concerned with this. Actually, I think Android will see a few many people with Lumias jumping to Android devices as well as many non-Lumia Nokia users jumping from Symbian/S40 to Android directly. For the simple reason that Microsoft has a lazy attitude regarding WP.

(Actually, as I write this, key members of Nokia are jumping ship. Nokia's chief of design, responsible for all the Lumia award-winning designs, is leaving in November.)

This is actually a big deal for the UK and western Europe from what I understand. Dobie, tell me if I'm wrong but Nokia still has a pretty decent following there. After the death of Symbian, it just so happened that most stuck to the inexpensive Android-based Nokia phones or gone to Samsung. If Nokia is gone, Samsung must be happy on what is a pretty substantial market if people stay with Android over switching to Windows phone to stay with Nokia. If the latter happens, that's a big deal.

This move was directed to take the cheap phone market where android gets its dominance. As a former Windowsphone user this wasn't a surprise but I guarantee in the offices of Google and other places it was. Windowsphone is making big gains with their low cost phones and now apple is getting into the budget phone space, and this is all for taking on Google and the cheap phones that is the main reason android is around 80%. What will people say when Samsung goes to Tizen OS?

If Microsoft is so irrelevant in the phone market why even bother posting all these comments to disparage them? If Android is so wonderful and beats MS hands down, why not sit with your smug self on your Android device and enjoy what you have? Instead, here you are blasting MS?

Based on many of the comments it's pretty clear the Android users on here haven't really bothered to use the Windows 8 Phone. You all still feel the need to post long winded, angry comments about Microsoft.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd love to have more options from different competitors, because that's when the customers win!

PS: I love my Windows Phone, Surface and Windows 8 PC!

We love to blast MS because:

1. It's fun
2. They are a hideous corporation
3. They screwed so many people in the 80s and 90s, it's good to see that karma really does exist

I used to say "Nobody uses Microsoft products because they want to. They use them because they have to". You might be the one exception to that rule outside of Microsoft employees.

Dude, get real.
The REASON they "HAVE to use Microsoft product" is because they HAVE to get work done that your "superior" devices CAN'T DO!

I have an iPad also. I use it to read and play; period. It isn't functional as a work device. Sorry Scott. That's reality. Your opinion of its virtues or selective use of the word "screwed" ain't worth enough to pay for a single cell phone call.

Actually yes to both. And people have been talking about Ubantu "growing its market share" for more than a decade.
Neither is accepted by nor used in any significant enterprise deployment. No loyal fanaticism or emotional bond by anyone is going to make that an insignificant truth.
It's all tools, pal. Ya got hammers, screwdrivers, wrenches and various other implements and devices that all do SOMETHING well. Which one is best depends on what has to be done. Not which one you "like".

Windows is safe on the desktop for the foreseeable future. However, the problem for Microsoft is that the desktop market is shrinking. Even Microsofties can see this through the haze of Kool-Aid. This is why they are trying to stay relevant with mobile computing. They don't want to be leap-frogged but I think they are fighting a losing battle. They waited too long to recognize the paradigm shift.

Nothing you said contradicted anything I said. In fact, you supported my position. People use Microsoft software because they don't have a choice. They are coerced rather than compelled.

I've always been amazed that an industry, built entirely on 0's and 1's, is consumed using the same thought process that produced the World Wrestling Federation.
Peppered amongst the glee club commentary are some interesting thoughts on marketing and product positioning. I accepted a long time ago, any group of people who CAN spend 7 billion dollars on anything, probably know a LOT of things that I do not.
This will be an interesting development to watch. But my $100 says that not one of the "gonna happen"'s mentioned above, actually happens. It's a guess. But an educated one.

Actually, since a wide range of opinions were offered it's likely that at least one will come to fruition.

This is terrible, they have not just wasted their money, but destroyed their future for a mobile OS.

Yes, Nokia tablets and phones will now be basically Microsoft, but people are forgetting that Windows Phone isn't just Microsoft and Nokia's game. Acer, Samsung, LG, and HTC make these devices. With Microsoft not having to pay a price to install their own license fee on their own machines, people won't want to buy a more expensive tablet or phone, they will want to purchase the obviously cheaper "Microsoft" Phone.

HTC is the only one that may suffer from this.
Samsung will simply abandon Windows Phone now. They already don't care much for it. By seeing the disgusting scheme Microsoft created to destroy the company responsible for WP ever getting to 3rd place, they'll just stop caring.
If Nokia shareholders don't prevent this, Microsoft buys Nokia, destroys Nokia and Windows Phone will sink fast.
90% of Windows Phone users - myself included - went to Windows Phone because it was a Nokia phone. With Nokia gone, many of us will simply jump ship.

Nokia phones quality and imaging capabilities compensated the underdeveloped OS and the lack of Apps. Without Nokia, we simply won't bare it any more.
I'm jumping to Android. The Xperia Z1 seems a good enough substitute for my Lumia 920.

MS will continue to license to Samsung HTC etc... But since they now can control hardware along with their software and OS, what will that mean to the other manufactures when Microsoft does what it always does... customize the hell out of everything with numerous selections and functions that no one cares about or provides little or no value but hogs up processing and memory running 50 behind the scenes programs!!

It means the other manufactures will have to adjust their hardware to keep up with MS and Windows just like PC and tablet makers do, or it means what MS really wants!! You can get the new MS mobile phone and it comes Microsoft's Nokia or Nokia take your pick.

Yadda, yadda, yadda. MS hater from the MS-DOS. I HAD to buy and learn Windows 8 Pro for testing purposes and I chose a tablet (Lenovo IdeaPad Lynx w/SSD for $380!). While the learning curve is a bit steep, I now love it for a number of reasons while my formerly-beloved Nexus 7 is gathering dust (yes, I had previously gone the iOS route and have no use for it whatsoever). Sure the store is weak but growing, but now I do not have to put my tablet down and run to my PC every time a business application rears its head. I can print to anything, access any network, watch any video and browse any Web site. The damn thing even runs Office 2012. Plus the interface is a joy to use with touch,keyboard and/or a mouse. Now when I pick up my Nexus, I find myself swiping all over the place to close/switch apps and such and nothing happens. You all need to learn Windows 8 before you hate on it.

The bottom line is that I want one of the new Nokia phones and hope that Sprint sells them.

This is a WIN for both companies as they continue to carve out their niche from both Android and Apple. Slowly nibbling away at the foundations of both while creating a strong third alternative in the process. I am very happy with my Nokia Windows 8 phone the screen is phenomenal and the camera with its Carl Zeiss lens is as good as advertised (and I a 928 not even a 1020) Here are some thoughts about the phone from when I got it. You can read about the device at m8qlaff.blogspot I have found a shortage of useful apps but the offerings are growing and the native functions work quite well the augmented reality feature on the HERE maps app was a little disconcerting a first but once I realized what it was doing I was jazzed. I like the versatility of the UI and the device itself. I will say it is a bit hefty the square corner fits comfortably in the crotch of my pinkie and it balances quite well there. I will say that it is a “right –hand” design and being a lefty it is some times a little awkward which is something I never noticed with the iPhones or Galaxies. Over all I give it high marks and I enjoy the UX as well.
I think it is great deal for both of them and insures growth and encourages diversity, always a good thing.

The bottom line: Both Apple and Android OEMs can easily add a super camera to any phone just about over night. Microsoft/Nokia can't build a mature and compelling ecosystem overnight. Whatever MS can do, Apple and especially Google can counter in a quicker and more efficient fashion.

Depending on the success of Sony's new camera accessory, the significance of the quality of the camera in smartphones could drop off significantly. I plan to pick up the Q10 around Christmas, which will make the camera on y next smartphone an almost complete non-issue.

ARRRggg! While this might not mean much for the US market, for the rest of the world where NOKIA is KING especially Asia this is terrible news. I love all my Asian bought Nokia phones and want to buy a Nokia smart phone this year on my Asia trip but I hate Windows 8 so now I guess I be forced to buy check out Samsung... :(

Before you reply back to buy I Phone, wouldn't get caught dead buying an Apple product...

"Now there isn't any clear alternative operating system for them to choose." I understand that it's not huge, yet (if it's even been released beyond beta testing), but what about the Ubuntu mobile OS? I haven't heard enough of Ubuntu's full-spectrum OS... servers, desktops, laptops, netbooks, notebooks, tablets, phones... you name it.

I am a layman compared to most of you, but what I would say is that if Microsoft strikes while the iron is hot..that is, create a top notch windows 8 device, it has a shot to gain significant market share. For the majority of the "non-nerd" world, we use PC's in our businesses that run windows..period. And that isn't going to change anytime soon. So Microsoft has this "window" of opportunity to win customers like myself, that really like my Android device to the Windows platform for our next purchases. Simple as that. I like Android, but I'm no fanboy of any platform. I used to love Nokia phones, but when they stubbornly actually stuck with Symbian for awhile...well their management was about as far behind the times as the current GOP congress (not to get too

This would be true if Windows Phone offered some unique integration, or if Android didn't communicate well with Windows compatible services, but neither is the case. Android works great with Windows desktops. Windows phone still hasn't found a way to distinguish itself, except for the UI, which, frankly, makes it look a bit like a child's toy.

You are exactly correct. Microsoft can make any claim they want but that doesn't make it true. People have plenty of tools on all of the major mobile platforms to allow them effective communication with their desktops. They don't need Windows Phone. Microsoft was too late to the game.

I've never looked at any of my phones, which included a Blackberry Curve, iPhone 3G, and several Androids and said, "You know what this phone needs? Tighter integration with Windows." The idea that people are clamoring for vertical integration between the desktop and mobile is a myth that only Microsoft and their few adherents are perpetuating.

One thing that comes as a surprise is that Microsoft got this as a really cheap deal! Compare this to Google's Motorola acquisition for $12.5 bn; Microsoft's Skype acquisition for $8.5 bn! Kudos to their M&A / deals team :)

I don't really understand why so many people discount Windows Phone simply because of a lower market share and missing a few good apps, I remember Android being the same not so long ago. Gotta start somewhere.

Android debuted in an immature market, most people didn't have smartphones at the time, very few did.
Now, the market has matured (at least in developed countries). For instance, more than 60% of all Americans have smartphones these days, that's including small children and senior citizens. There's room for growth, but not much.
And Microsoft isn't missing "a few good apps", they're missing more than 90% of what Apple and Android have.
They've also got a stigma against their brand, some of it earned, some of it unearned, not to mention Windows 8 is crap.

This was a desperation move by Microsoft, the licensing deal they had with Nokia was sweet beyond words for MS. This deal happened because Nokia was bleeding money from going the Windows route and was about to switch to making Android handsets or they were looking at bankruptcy, either of which would have been a death knell for Windows Phone. Those are the only two explanations that make sense.

Absolutely. Markets have lifecycles. Strategies that works in the initial phase of a market don't work later after it has matured. Most major markets only have room for two major players. The rest fight for the scraps that fall off the big boys' table. An example often cited is cola. You have Coke and Pepsi.....and RC. Coke and Pepsi scoop up the vast majority of the market. There's really no unseating them at this point. The same goes with tech markets. Microsoft's only hope is to create the next big thing, a task they have been historically incapable of doing.

There's room for more phone operating systems out there. I like my Android HTC Amaze phone, but decided to give Blackberry's new OS 10 a try and will never look back. I still own a Nexus 7 tablet, and it now serves the purpose of reminding me how much more though out the new Blackberry OS10 is. Just moving from app to app and back makes BB's new OS10 worth using over any other platform. Throw in the BB messaging hub and I really can't see myself going back to Android. I will not purchase a Playbook mostly because of the a outdated hardware and old OS. If BB comes out with OS10 on a tablet, I will buy it. Till then, I will put up with my Nexus 7. Hate this piece of crap for not playing Flash. And GMail has turned into the most annoying email one can ever use. They added too much c r a p to it. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

"There's room for more phone operating systems out there"
Not really. The mobile OS market will always be a two horse race, much like the PC market has been between Microsoft and Apple. Sure there will be fringe users of Ubuntu and other minor OS's, but marketshare wise, they'l be insignificant.
Windows was too late to the party and Blackberry was too complacent and slow in changing directions. While they'll (probably) continue to exist, they won't matter.

To quote Les Grossman from Tropic Thunder, MS " a dying star. A white dwarf headed for a black hole. That's physics. It's inevitable.".

The same can be said for Blackberry.